Europe. In or out?

[vespa]

Sadly unlike the scottish referendum this debate has alienated a large number of voters.

I will nail my mast - I'm in

In a world with increasing alienation of nations I feel that unity is the way forward.

I also feel that in the case of an out vote it will signal the end of the British Isles as we know it.

A great shame!

An in vote will signal the end of Britain , its whether economic stability is more important than keeping Britain ,British. We have no choice than to do the right thing for our future generations , as soon as Turkey enters the EU ,our shores are lost ,no choice ,vote leave.,,

[Hubble]

You like vanilla ice cream or you like chocolate ice cream. That's kind of what it comes down to. But what if you like both?????

[TBLOCKRANGER]

Sadly unlike the scottish referendum this debate has alienated a large number of voters.

I will nail my mast - I'm in

In a world with increasing alienation of nations I feel that unity is the way forward.

I also feel that in the case of an out vote it will signal the end of the British Isles as we know it.

A great shame!

I agree it will signal the end if we vote out but it will be the beginning of the end of the EU not these great isles.
We vote out it becomes toxic and people of other countries like Greece who've had bad deals forced upon them will start asking for the referendum...gradually more and more countries will want out. A domino effect will occur and the EU will be either a rump or no more. That is why the hostility is so severe and all are lining up against the outers, it's because the EU experiment is at threat not the existence of GB.
Historically when revolution swept Europe and wars changed European countries boundaries ...GB stood firm.
What worries me is being brought up in West London in the 70s & 80s no one would have thought this great nation would have collapsed if we came out of the EU ...as a member of a nation state I feel our identity has been eroded since then and the tipping point for many is that we are nothing without the EU...which to me sums up what's wrong it's all gone to far.
I think what will happen if we vote out is other countries will soon follow and we set up trade agreements with them &/or the EU is so fatally weakened that they will internally reform. .
It's an interesting debate and I'm impressed with both arguments that have been put forward on this board.
Also apart from June referendum remember you also have to pay the rest of your ST amount if you only paid a deposit. Worse case scenario for me is we vote to stay in and I forget to pay me remaining amount!!!!

[jmelanie]

Angela Merkal warned that it would be harder to negotiate out of the EU than inside. I'm not sure how this is possible. I think David Cameron got the best deal he could, but that didn't really amount to much. We can't really negotiate exactly what we want without other countries wanting concessions.

[Olly]

I agree it will signal the end if we vote out but it will be the beginning of the end of the EU not these great isles.
We vote out it becomes toxic and people of other countries like Greece who've had bad deals forced upon them will start asking for the referendum...gradually more and more countries will want out. A domino effect will occur and the EU will be either a rump or no more. That is why the hostility is so severe and all are lining up against the outers, it's because the EU experiment is at threat not the existence of GB.

Good post. There's a worry about wars in Europe in the future, that was another reason, or maybe the main one for the EU's existence. Is that argument still relevant today, or not our problem?

[TBLOCKRANGER]

Good post. There's a worry about wars in Europe in the future, that was another reason, or maybe the main one for the EU's existence. Is that argument still relevant today, or not our problem?

Agree it was a reason for its creation that followed WW2 and the German aggression that caused the war. I personally think no longer relevant as Germany or France are no longer great military powers. Also NATO isn't effected by voting out so the military alliance is still intact.
Plus EU hasn't stopped European wars as Balkans occured in the 90s and currently the Ukraine conflict. An argument for the iners is the fact these two conflicts didnt spread showed the advantage of the EU but I just think globally old rivalries aren't what they used to be.
Historically India/pakistan/China were warring as were China/Japan and Israel and various Arabic states but even in these hotbed of bitter rivalries no recent wars have occured.
If the reason for last two great wars was German expansion it's a bit unfair to say we can't leave the EU because Germany might declare war on us all. That's like appeasing the bully.
As to the EU has it been a tool for the good in relation to stopping wars? I'm not sure ...look currently at the Syrian conflict ..Europe was paralysed and did nothing. The scenes of genocide occurring before our eyes, innocent people being murdered and children and women being trafficked and EU had no cohesive response. If someone asked me what the EUs position is on Syria I wouldn't know...I know Russia's, I know a turkeys, I know Saudis Arabias and kind of even know the USAs but the EU. An argument might be the EU doesn't have a position as its a trading block and not a military alliance but if that's the case then why the scaremongering that if we leave the EU Chiswick High Road gonna be Agincourt as we are all gonna start fighting...

[Jeems]

I will nail my mast - I'm in

In a world with increasing alienation of nations I feel that unity is the way forward.

The union worked fine up until 2004 time when only the richer Western European nations were included. It started going down the pan when the poorer nations started joining. Unity? When the Polish PM says it is a "victory for the Polish people" after Cameron couldn't push through his benefits reforms? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-benefits.html Or when she abandons her promise to take in refugees as part of the wider EU pledge? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-bombings.html

Where is the unity? It's a big bluff in reality.

You like vanilla ice cream or you like chocolate ice cream. That's kind of what it comes down to. But what if you like both?????

Stomach ache, uncomfortable morning release, thoughts of "why did I do that?!"

[West Acton]

Even if the vote is out am I right in thinking we could remain in for further five years while exit is negotiated????

We're not leaving regardless of outcome in my view if it's out EU will give concessions to keep us in

[jmelanie]

Even if the vote is out am I right in thinking we could remain in for further five years while exit is negotiated????

We're not leaving regardless of outcome in my view if it's out EU will give concessions to keep us in

I think it's a maximum of 2 years. If no agreement has been reached by then we would be out.

[gaza09]

Even if the vote is out am I right in thinking we could remain in for further five years while exit is negotiated????

We're not leaving regardless of outcome in my view if it's out EU will give concessions to keep us in

We're not little Ireland, the British will not allow the EU to ignore the democratic will of the nation.
That's no dig at the Irish by the way as my father is a Kerry man, they just we're not in any position at the time to stand up to the EU, when they were forced to vote again until they voted the way the EU wanted them.

If they ignored the referendum result and tried to make us vote again there would be riots in the streets.

[QPR Richard]

There are worrying proposals on their way from the EU. The EU Battle Group (which is already happening), the EU Coast and Border Guard, the EU Tax ID number, more money to deal with migrants, redistribution of said migrants.

If you look at recent migrant numbers, the country needs to build a city the size of Newcastle to deal with immigration each and every year. In 25 years time a city the size of London, which took centuries to develop, will need to be built. Where?

Meanwhile, housing costs remain high because of supply and demand, wages are low because of the same reason, school places are at a premium, the NHS has a huge hole in its finances because it is having to treat more people, trains are packed, the roads are gridlocked, and there's things like 5% VAT on energy costs because the EU says so. On top of that we pay around £241m a week net to the EU.

The EU is a political project with its aim of creating a federal superstate. Nothing less. Why on earth does it need an anthem? EU law and justice is supreme among member states. It wants its own armed forces. It continues its power grab using the legal system and the Euro.

That's my rant over with. I'm off to deliver some Brexit leaflets 😀

[Cardiff Ranger]

Very strong performance by Gove on 'Peston on Sunday' just now, systematically answered his questions and summed up the reason I'm voting out. Very intelligent man Gove, made Harpeson look like an amateur...!

[Jimmy Floyd Rabbit]

There are worrying proposals on their way from the EU. The EU Battle Group (which is already happening), the EU Coast and Border Guard, the EU Tax ID number, more money to deal with migrants, redistribution of said migrants.

If you look at recent migrant numbers, the country needs to build a city the size of Newcastle to deal with immigration each and every year. In 25 years time a city the size of London, which took centuries to develop, will need to be built. Where?

Meanwhile, housing costs remain high because of supply and demand, wages are low because of the same reason, school places are at a premium, the NHS has a huge hole in its finances because it is having to treat more people, trains are packed, the roads are gridlocked, and there's things like 5% VAT on energy costs because the EU says so. On top of that we pay around £241m a week net to the EU.

The EU is a political project with its aim of creating a federal superstate. Nothing less. Why on earth does it need an anthem? EU law and justice is supreme among member states. It wants its own armed forces. It continues its power grab using the legal system and the Euro.

That's my rant over with. I'm off to deliver some Brexit leaflets 😀

[wortonranger]

Very strong performance by Gove on 'Peston on Sunday' just now, systematically answered his questions and summed up the reason I'm voting out. Very intelligent man Gove, made Harpeson look like an amateur...!

Gove supports QPR. Other than that he is repulsive. If you have kids at school ask their teachers. He Put all I have worked for as a teacher back 29 years. Arrogant man. Wrong man,
. Vote in to safeguard our children's future .

[WeAreQPR12]

Gove supports QPR. Other than that he is repulsive. If you have kids at school ask their teachers. He Put all I have worked for as a teacher back 29 years. Arrogant man. Wrong man,
. Vote in to safeguard our children's future .

Yeah vote in so that house prices stay ridiculous and the next generation have a life time of extortionate rent to some rich foreigner and his children