The Rooney Rule

[nasser95]

What would there be to complain about Dave, without it appearing a ridiculous argument?

Think you've summed it up rather well.

Genuinely cannot think of a single chairman that would not want to employ a successful black manager. Although if I were a chairman, being successful, honest, hard working etc., would be pre-requisites of employing someone. I can safely say that the colour of their skin would not play even the tiniest part in the decision.

This is true but the issue is that they don't get the opportunity to prove themselves. Hence, they don't get a chance to really become 'successful' and gain the pre-requisites needed.

[brightonr]

One or two trying to be clever 72.....

Question should be is how many English,.. not British..... English, managers are working in the Prem...don't see any hand wringers calling for quotas there

What would there be to complain about Dave, without it appearing a ridiculous argument?

Think you've summed it up rather well.

Genuinely cannot think of a single chairman that would not want to employ a successful black manager. Although if I were a chairman, being successful, honest, hard working etc., would be pre-requisites of employing someone. I can safely say that the colour of their skin would not play even the tiniest part in the decision.

[nasser95]

Black people have no problem becoming players. No one stops them. They should have no problem becoming managers. No one stops them.

This is absolutely untrue. The whole argument is that there is institutional racism that stops them getting roles beyond being a player.

[Rangers77]

Black people have no problem becoming players. No one stops them. They should have no problem becoming managers. No one stops them.

[lymehoop]

One or two trying to be clever 72.....

Question should be is how many English,.. not British..... English, managers are working in the Prem...don't see any hand wringers calling for quotas there

WHU v. Newcastle Dave, 3 English players, majority African, the game was shite

[QPRDave]

glad i'm not in this debate its gone right over my head .... keep it simple

One or two trying to be clever 72.....

Question should be is how many English,.. not British..... English, managers are working in the Prem...don't see any hand wringers calling for quotas there

[72bus]

glad i'm not in this debate its gone right over my head .... keep it simple

[nasser95]

ds, the issue with your argument is that short players are not represented because they aren't of the right build to play that sport. Despite that, what you see is that there are a few extremely talented individuals who are significantly shorter than most in the league and they make it because their inherent ability makes their height a limited factor. The difference between basketball and football is that the element of height actually has an effect on the quality of players. There is a correlation between performance and height in general. Discrimination isn't what its called because the quality of the player is affected by their height (In general). There is absolutely no correlation however between race and managerial skill in football. There isn't even enough data to prove that white managers are better than black managers or vice versa because there haven't been a significant amount of black managers within the sport (certainly in the UK) to get enough data to validate the information.

[dsqpr]

Height and race are two separate issues even you can see that,,, you are hue that small races being unfepresented is racist and yet clearly shorter players cannot slam dunk.. It clearly isn't the same argument as football

But race and height are CORRELATED! That is the key point. It is an argument that is used often - for example, it is the reason women don't have to pass the same tests as men to become soldiers or policemen, for example - because there is a CORRELATION between gender and strength. Surely even you can see that.

Smaller players and basketball is a pretty obvious example which is why I used it. In football, the issues may be much more subtle. But nevertheless, there may be genetic reasons why some races are better players and/or better managers than other races and THAT may be the reason those races are statistically over represented in football.

[Awin]

Height and race are two separate issues even you can see that,,, you are hue that small races being unfepresented is racist and yet clearly shorter players cannot slam dunk.. It clearly isn't the same argument as football

[dsqpr]

in fact top 10 tallest nations are

Holland
Sweden
Denmark
Norway
Estonia
Finland
Germany
Greece
United States
Australia

In fact not one African country makes it into the top 10 so your argument is pure codswallop

Your logic is codswallop! I'm talking about SHORT races, not TALL ones! The only way to debunk my argument is to prove that SHORT races ARE properly represented in the NBA. (In other words, I'm not saying the NBA is racist FOR tall people, I'm saying it is racist AGAINST short people - and that is not the same thing. In other words, they don't necessary INCLUDE the tallest races but they do EXCLUDE the shortest ones.)

Or to say that there is another reason that short people are under represened, which is of course the case, as I said in my previous post.

[Awin]

in fact top 10 tallest nations are

Holland
Sweden
Denmark
Norway
Estonia
Finland
Germany
Greece
United States
Australia

In fact not one African country makes it into the top 10 so your argument is pure codswallop

[dsqpr]

That does not prove that shorter races are not discriminated against. The fact is that short players are statistically under represented in the NBA and that it therefore discriminates against races who are shorter.

And of course I'm intentionally leaving out the key fact as an exercise for the reader but from your reply I guess it needs to be said: the key missing fact from the whole "institutionally racist because of statistical underrepresentation" argument is that shorter people are not as good at basketball as taller ones. That is why short people are under represented in the NBA, not because of racism.

Perhaps the same is true in other arenas. Statistical under representation does not imply racism.

[Awin]

Read my edited post fella!

[dsqpr]

Surely even you see that your argument is codswallop

Ah, the irony. That reply isn't even an argument. If you think my argument is codswallop then let's hear why.