Careful what you wish for

[luca]

Why on earth are fans calling Ian to be sacked? Are you so dumb to see that its the players fault?
####ing hell... the manager is not on the pitch, so can't defend properly and can't score goals!
Stopp asking for the managers head!!

[amusant]

This is a topic I was about to bring up myself actually. The fact is, a fanbase as a general body can be said to have 2 aims for their team: Entertainment and avoiding defeat. If you get one without the other, a fanbase (as a whole) is willing to turn on everything about the club until they get any change.
A manager's job should be ideally much more simple: Win. A manager should not have to care about how entertaining the side is because ultimately, what (should) get fans more happy than a win?
This particular fanbase have had one season in god knows how many where they got both entertainment and avoiding defeat and that was the championship winning season. Ever since then, we've had at most one or the other and consistently, the fans have turned on people at the club to get what they want.
All TF has done is given those loud voices what they wanted. JFH should never have gone but even before him, changes were made that shouldn't have been made but the overall fanbase demanded these changes and when they got them and found they didn't work, all they did was turn on him and demand more change.

People complain about the spending, I remember the start of our first prem season where we lost 4 - 0 at home to Bolton, having spent practically nothing yet and fans were there, screaming for money to be pumped. I remember seeing fans elated at the signing of SWP, Armand Traore, etc when we finally got money in. I also remember fans turning on NW at the end of his stint, I remember them turning on HR when we came up again because he wasn't as entertaining as he should have been, even though we got promoted and got results. It all happened the same way. Fans got one thing but wanted more and demanded change that invariably ended up with us having to take 2 steps back to try again.

An overall fanbase should never dictate the direction of the club. The direction of the club should dictate the fanbase. If fans don't want to stick around, they don't have to. If they don't feel it's the same club anymore, it probably isn't, but not many clubs are the same club they were before. TF has made one big mistake in his time here. He listened too much.

All good businesses listen to their customers, however they rarely take their opinions on who they should appoint to management positions and whether they should sack them. Yes, listen on ticket prices, the poor state of the toilets in the Ellerslie, explain the rationale for decisions and talk about the debt, but for gods sake take professional advice on who to hire as manager and then stick by your decision. I don't think it's a case of Tony listening too much, I think it's a case of him being a weak owner dragged from one poor decision to another because he reads the message boards and that's the last thing you need.

Warnock didn't deserve to be sacked, that was a disgraceful decision, but having done that the board needed to be strong enough to stick with Hughes, he has shown before and after QPR that he's a highly competent manager. Then get influenced to put Harry in a position where he walked (another manager with an excellent track record), appoint a rookie manager and then sack him a year later (why would you think a rookie manager would provide instant results?), replace him with a man who suddenly looks a lot better than we thought he was and finally end up in this god awful mess. The irony is that Chris Ramsay's record in this division is almost certainly better than JFH's and it's not very difficult to be better than Ollie's.

I'm even feeling sorry for Ollie. He was hired after all to make the team play more entertaining football - well he's trying.....

[nasser95]

Flavio was a madman but at least there was progress in the end. Whether his influence or not they had a plan. What is ours?

Right, and how did we progress once we actually went up? TF kept us in the prem one season longer than we would have been there under flav, that's a pretty hard to question statement given the signings, lack of ambition with those signings and the opening result.

[1973 ranger]

Nas, Flavio and Bernie's plan was promotion then sell which they achieved as for when we went up they spent nothing on players as they were selling the club. Go back to 2007-2008 season and that january window and see the players that were brought in that changed our team and club. We stayed up the first season under Fernandes on the last day so that is something that could have easily gone the other way. That pre season was the launch of the blue and white plane which says it all about the current chairman.

[bushkangaroo]

I had concerns about Hughes before his appointment, I didn't want Warnock out, I didn't want JFH, I didn't want Ramsey, I didn't want Ollie. Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

Post Flav the group of people who wanted all of this was in fact the board and specifically the chairman. These errors were compounded by appointing Les. I didn't want him either.

I think TF has got almost every key decision wrong and this is not hindsight.

I too didn't want Warnock out at the time nor did I want Hughes. However, when he kept us up, I was sure I'd been wrong and TF had got it right. Little did we know what history lay ahead, and we may well fall further still before stabilising/rising again.

[Stanley]

All good businesses listen to their customers, however they rarely take their opinions on who they should appoint to management positions and whether they should sack them. Yes, listen on ticket prices, the poor state of the toilets in the Ellerslie, explain the rationale for decisions and talk about the debt, but for gods sake take professional advice on who to hire as manager and then stick by your decision. I don't think it's a case of Tony listening too much, I think it's a case of him being a weak owner dragged from one poor decision to another because he reads the message boards and that's the last thing you need.

Warnock didn't deserve to be sacked, that was a disgraceful decision, but having done that the board needed to be strong enough to stick with Hughes, he has shown before and after QPR that he's a highly competent manager. Then get influenced to put Harry in a position where he walked (another manager with an excellent track record), appoint a rookie manager and then sack him a year later (why would you think a rookie manager would provide instant results?), replace him with a man who suddenly looks a lot better than we thought he was and finally end up in this god awful mess. The irony is that Chris Ramsay's record in this division is almost certainly better than JFH's and it's not very difficult to be better than Ollie's.

I'm even feeling sorry for Ollie. He was hired after all to make the team play more entertaining football - well he's trying.....

Couldn't agree more Amusant.

[FACTS]

Speak for yourself, I just wanted a little thought into our signings and some balance. The judgement's just been so off, and the worst thing is there has ALWAYS been better, viable alternatives available, but sadly the powers that be are incapable of seeing them.

I didn't want washed up crap like Rob Green Luke Young or SWP, Redknapp, overpaying for Washington, signing known turds in Henry & Perch, signing an injured Andy Johnson, QPR sponsored planes, a chairman boasting about our ambition, buying Samba for 14M after 6 months in Russia, Les Ferdinand as DOF, youth players promoted to the first team before they were ready, players played out of position, Barton given the captaincy etc etc.

The board have to acknowledge their shortcomings, they've messed up at almost every stage and you can't blame the fans for that.

[Olly]

Flavio was a madman but at least there was progress in the end. Whether his influence or not they had a plan. What is ours?

It was known at that time how easy it was to get a club promoted with a small investment. T&C knew this and were only interested in the quick sale when we went up, they had no intentions of staying around.

[PompeyRanger]

Fans have every right to raise their concerns how the club is being run /managed. We pay a small fortune to sit in a #### hole of a stadium and have to endure the rubbish served on the pitch.

Just stating the same old stuff.... about how much you pay etc.. doesn't really answer the question..
PS.. whilst I'm a season ticket holder i don't think that Average £25 a ticket isn't that expensive for a day out in london..

[dogsrrs]

Nas, Flavio and Bernie's plan was promotion then sell which they achieved as for when we went up they spent nothing on players as they were selling the club. Go back to 2007-2008 season and that january window and see the players that were brought in that changed our team and club. We stayed up the first season under Fernandes on the last day so that is something that could have easily gone the other way. That pre season was the launch of the blue and white plane which says it all about the current chairman.

Wrong 73 it was going tlts up under those 2 Amit Bhati had to tell Flabio to shut up and keep his nose out then he got Warnock and it was Amit that guided the club in the right direction , we would have club in a far better condition if greed on greed didn't fark things up by upping the anti on an agreed deal to sell the club to the Mittals and they told the greedy barstards to fark off

[West Acton]

I agree with you Dogs Amit was the brains and marginalised flabby and ran show. I remember being last game of season when they done lap of honour and you could see anger in Flabbys face that he was getting no adulation and all the songs were about Amit and Mittel for me that's when he decided to sell. He was used to being loved but we never gave him the love instead he got abuse and he could not deal with it or get head round it. He's owner that got us up but got booed walking round pitch

Does beg question though if Amit stepped in last time when we were being ran shambolically why has he not bothered this time

[1973 ranger]

Dogs, Agreed Amit ran the show in the public eye but Flavio controlled Bernie's shares and everything was run by him at that time. And that was told to me by the manager at the time. That time was as good as it gets as a rangers fan.

[dogsrrs]

I agree with you Dogs Amit was the brains and marginalised flabby and ran show. I remember being last game of season when they done lap of honour and you could see anger in Flabbys face that he was getting no adulation and all the songs were about Amit and Mittel for me that's when he decided to sell. He was used to being loved but we never gave him the love instead he got abuse and he could not deal with it or get head round it. He's owner that got us up but got booed walking round pitch

Does beg question though if Amit stepped in last time when we were being ran shambolically why has he not bothered this time

Think the answer to that is A B thought the Mittals were going to get the club , now it's T F that has the shout for me the ideal would be A B being dof on a part time basis , that's if he has time away from his business interests let's fair if club our size does want a dof there's not a need in the world for it full time paid job

[Stanley]

Lets be honest here. The best thing Amit did was to appoint a championship experienced manager in Neil Warnock. After that he just backed him, but with sound financial prudence. Essentially that is all a chairman ever needs to do. There was absolutely no need for a DoF when we won the league in 2011, and there's no need for one now. The more streamlined and simpler the better and AB and NW understood that.

[The General]

Adel on loan
Morrison on loan
Crouch on loan

Sorted