Roony's Law

[QPRDave]

Just wondered what the views are on this idea that the PFA have backed about bringing this in? Personally I don't agree with it and no matter who spins it discrimination is discrimination, and there should be no such thing as positive or negative. There was a lawyer on ssn today who is something to do with setting up a black lawyers union, and he was saying that he'd like to see a target achieved over 3 years of where clubs have to recruit black managers/coaches.
Just another question to those who want Sparky out who would be your black manager choice?

[brightonr]

I agree with you Dave, discrimination is discrimination, whatever form it takes.

[Will M]

I think the Rooney law is going to have the reverse effect, because any black appointment made after it comes in will be undermined. Imagine how tough it is for managers as it is. Now with added pressure of, did this clown deserve to get the job?

[QPR Richard]

There was something on BBC Breakfast the other morning and Dr Helen Pankhurst (related to the famous suffragette) said there should be 50/50 men and women in parliament. I don't give a stuff what colour a person is, as long as they can do the bloody job!

These black people who want representation in all spheres should be very careful. I think what they're saying is, if the black population of the country is say 5%, then there should be 5% representation of black coaches and managers.

However, apply that same rule to football players and each club would be allowed a maximum of 1.25 black players, round it up to 2, and there'd be a lot of black players out of a job. So, the question is, do they want things based on proportion or ability?

[bhujio]

South African cricket team went into something like this and a lot of white players resigned and they went to picking players on merit.

[brightonr]

There was something on BBC Breakfast the other morning and Dr Helen Pankhurst (related to the famous suffragette) said there should be 50/50 men and women in parliament. I don't give a stuff what colour a person is, as long as they can do the bloody job!

These black people who want representation in all spheres should be very careful. I think what they're saying is, if the black population of the country is say 5%, then there should be 5% representation of black coaches and managers.

However, apply that same rule to football players and each club would be allowed a maximum of 1.25 black players, round it up to 2, and there'd be a lot of black players out of a job. So, the question is, do they want things based on proportion or ability?

That's a very pertinent point Richard. Would love to see someone argue against that one.

[vblockranger]

There was something on BBC Breakfast the other morning and Dr Helen Pankhurst (related to the famous suffragette) said there should be 50/50 men and women in parliament. I don't give a stuff what colour a person is, as long as they can do the bloody job!

These black people who want representation in all spheres should be very careful. I think what they're saying is, if the black population of the country is say 5%, then there should be 5% representation of black coaches and managers.

However, apply that same rule to football players and each club would be allowed a maximum of 1.25 black players, round it up to 2, and there'd be a lot of black players out of a job. So, the question is, do they want things based on proportion or ability?

Great point and imo they want it both ways mate and as much as possible anyway they can.

[TBLOCKRANGER]

That's a very pertinent point Richard. Would love to see someone argue against that one.

Always one

From my understanding Rooneys law isn't about direct representation in coaching or players based on colour in direct proportion to the population. If this was the case then the argument forwarded would be correct and the 7 black players we fielded on Sunday would need to be reduced to a number directly proportionate to the population. However Rooneys law doesn't state this and the fact some suffragettes relative is going on TV doesn't add anything to the argument.
Rooneys law was basically trying to deal with the issue in American football where 70% of the players were black but 6% of the coaches were black. Whatever way you look at it, this seems weird. After the implementation of the law the % went up.

If you compare the American situation with our football then there is a striking similarity, just with our club the % of our players who could be described as black at any one time on the pitch is about 60% to 70% but only 4 coaches in all the divisions are black.

We sit on our high horses saying how backward Serbia are, and how we have moved forward, but any further improvements are met with derision

The law itself as in existence in America doesn't say a club has to have a minimum number of black players or a minimum number of coaches must be in the league directly proportionate to the population.

All the Rooney law says is that when a club interviews for a coach their short list must have a ratio where those interviewed are black. Nothing in the law says you have to give the job to a black interviewee, all it does is it just gives black coaches an opportunity getting past the door.

Lastly, if that means Sir Les can get a few more interviews then I'm all for it considering Dowie somehow seems to be on most clubs short list, if that isn't an argument to bring in the law I don't know what is.

[Johnnykc]

Always one

From my understanding Rooneys law isn't about direct representation in coaching or players based on colour in direct proportion to the population. If this was the case then the argument forwarded would be correct and the 7 black players we fielded on Sunday would need to be reduced to a number directly proportionate to the population. However Rooneys law doesn't state this and the fact some suffragettes relative is going on TV doesn't add anything to the argument.
Rooneys law was basically trying to deal with the issue in American football where 70% of the players were black but 6% of the coaches were black. After the change this % moved up. Whatever way you look at it, this seems weird. I remember the 70 s and 80 s when black players were only forwards or defenders, now they dominate all positions, so the argument that's just how it is doesn't hold water.

If you compare the American situation with our football then striking similarity, just with our club the %of our players would could be described as black at any one time on the pitch is 70% but only 4 coaches in all the divisions are black.

We sit on our high horses saying how backward Serbia are, and how we have moved forward, but any further improvements are met with derision

Lastly, the law itself as in existence in America doesn't say a club has to have a minimum number of black players or a minimum number of coaches must be in the league directly proportionate to the population. All the Rooney law says is that when a club interviews for a coach their short list must have a ration where those interviewed are black. Nothing in the law says you have to give the job to a black interviewee, just gives black coaches an opportunity getting past the door. If that means Sir Les can get a few more interviews then I'm all for it considering Dowie somehow seems to be on most clubs short list, if that isn't an argument to bring in the law I don't know what is.

Mmmmm......that would seem to be a pretty good argument against Richards point......

[dsqpr]

There is no such thing as negative discrimmination.

[BigDanShittu]

There are positive and negative arguments for Rooneys law. IMO one of the good points is that it allows players who are wanting to coach but feel they don't have a chance an opportunity and also forces clubs to have a larger depth of candidates from all over the world. The negatives are that the it could force clubs into hiring someone they don't want as they are under pressure and are tagged if they don't have a black manager or top coaches and some people who may have got a chance at a job may miss out because of the quota of representation. How many managers in the premier league at the minute are English? I think if you're forcing clubs to do a fair representation when you are interviewing people for head coaches and managers it should be fair for everyone, the Rooney law now applies to all minorities.

[paulmason]

Why should an organisation be forced to interview a black person or a white person, surely they interview the best candidates available for the job?

One person always interviewed when this subject is discussed seems to be Paul Ince, but I never hear the person asking the question ask him - Paul, do you think you can't get a job because you are black or because your stats suggest you are a crap manager ?

Meanwile, keeping on the social engineering topic, http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012...?utm_hp_ref=uk

[QPRDave]

There are positive and negative arguments for Rooneys law. IMO one of the good points is that it allows players who are wanting to coach but feel they don't have a chance an opportunity and also forces clubs to have a larger depth of candidates from all over the world. The negatives are that the it could force clubs into hiring someone they don't want as they are under pressure and are tagged if they don't have a black manager or top coaches and some people who may have got a chance at a job may miss out because of the quota of representation. How many managers in the premier league at the minute are English? I think if you're forcing clubs to do a fair representation when you are interviewing people for head coaches and managers it should be fair for everyone, the Rooney law now applies to all minorities.

Spot on.........English managers in the top league in England............rare as rocking horse sh*t!

[Factamondo]

Why should an organisation be forced to interview a black person or a white person, surely they interview the best candidates available for the job?

One person always interviewed when this subject is discussed seems to be Paul Ince, but I never hear the person asking the question ask him - Paul, do you think you can't get a job because you are black or because your stats suggest you are a crap manager ?

Meanwile, keeping on the social engineering topic, http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012...?utm_hp_ref=uk

that mr mason is a factomondo.....imagine the furore over a 'white and english' only players union???......this country and its pc correctness overkill is making me sick....whatever next???.....why aint there no ethnics in teh royal family ffs...........oi harry marry that chuffing rhianna or nicki minaji ffs!

[brightonr]

Why should an organisation be forced to interview a black person or a white person, surely they interview the best candidates available for the job?

One person always interviewed when this subject is discussed seems to be Paul Ince, but I never hear the person asking the question ask him - Paul, do you think you can't get a job because you are black or because your stats suggest you are a crap manager ?

Meanwile, keeping on the social engineering topic, http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012...?utm_hp_ref=uk

Common sense Paul, isn't it?

Except that last bit.