Stephan's Time is Up

[daveshads]

Not as convinced as some of you. Poor division this year and some of our results and performances were dismal. Read a newspaper interview on FB yesterday where “the project” is key even in Juliens’ eyes. While that is so, still not sure it’s very important who the manager is.
Also during the season, we had 2 separate good runs where the play offs were within reach. These good runs were immediately followed by 2 desperate runs. It was almost as if the club went…..
”whoaaaa - this isn’t in the plan”.
I am still very suspicious of our injury record in terms of how they come about, how we deal with them (and how quickly) and how they are endlessly used as excuses in many cases to give extra time to “project” players.

[3London]

there is no way we should be changing managers.

I think given our injury record this year we did as well as we could given that for the 2nd half of the season we were playing with a half fit squad.

Burrell , Dembele, Chair, Poku, Obiku , Madsen, JCS, Dunne, Varane Larchecke, all unavailable for large chunks of hte season - Kone - Running on fumes because of the shift he is being asked to do .

We need a Serious review of the Fitness set up and the pitch - they have had a significant impact on the job JS has been able to do.

What i will say Is JS needs to find a way to get the team fired up for the beginning of each half - so many games we have started each half poorly and that has cost us.

the league was fine margins it could almost be 3 results - Wrexham Swansea and derby at home.

7 more points and we would have had a top 10 finish and that would be considered progress.

[djp]

"Ultimately, I don't believe he is capable of taking us up next season."

With at least two of Southampton, Middlesbrough, Wrexham staying and then add Wolves, Burnley and one of Spurs/West Ham/Forest coming down I'm not sure many managers have a chance next year of taking a team up. So really its a focus on who can make a team play that will get us mid-table / promotion pushing, play good football, and develop players.

He did well in converting Kone and Burrell into Championship players in their first season, was unlucky with Poku, and did a miracle with Maddsen so i'd say give another season.

I think this one of the most sensible posts we have had in this debate.

I have supported Stephan all season but after the first 20 mins of Ipswich I had enough and wanted him gone thinking he can’t take us forward, emotions got the better of me. Even after game I was saying in another post I just don’t see how any players are going to develop into Eze type sale, but I think that in unrealistic anyway as our sale target market isn’t Premier league teams, it is the teams you have mentioned.

As you mention, he has done extremely well with Kone, Burrell and Madsen. Another season of them kicking on and the following summer we have 3 x 10-15+ million players on our hands, I would add Vale into that mix if he continues his progression and is more consistent. We can sell 2 of those 4 in summer of 2027 and then the project is starting to work and Stephan is doing a very good job in terms of what is realistic.

[LordLoftus]

"Ultimately, I don't believe he is capable of taking us up next season."

With at least two of Southampton, Middlesbrough, Wrexham staying and then add Wolves, Burnley and one of Spurs/West Ham/Forest coming down I'm not sure many managers have a chance next year of taking a team up. So really its a focus on who can make a team play that will get us mid-table / promotion pushing, play good football, and develop players.

He did well in converting Kone and Burrell into Championship players in their first season, was unlucky with Poku, and did a miracle with Maddsen so i'd say give another season.

[Abseits]

1 year 4 months is the average tenure of a QPR manager in the last 56 years, time for him to move on then?

That's longer than the Championship average...

Have to say that today's effort had no evidence of a manager fighting to save his job or of a squad trying to save their gaffer - whole thing felt flat and undercooked.

We are never going to compete in terms of pure talent, class and quality BUT we can compete in terms of blood,sweat and tears. We need bombproof team spirit and Clint Hill's "Band of Brothers" mindset. The club needs to recognise this and stop hiring foreign managers who just don't understand the EFL, forget about highfaluting sports science and medical theory and focus on hiring a battle hardened uncompromising British manager who knows how to navigate a 9-month EFL grind.

Millwall and Hull have shown that having relatively meagre resources is NOT a hindrance to finishing in top 6. We need the right mindset and attitude to percolate down from the gaffer and a preparedness to go to war 46 times without taking a backwards step. I don't see JS as being that sort of guy and I don't think the players do either.

[cross it Dave]

1 year 4 months is the average tenure of a QPR manager in the last 56 years, time for him to move on then?

[Abseits]

I caught that PSG/Bayern game by pure luck as I had a rare spare evening alone with the telly - it was a remarkable game that put most other matches I've seen this season to shame. It wasn't just the talent it was the approach and the attitude on display right through both sides; the handful of Premiership games I've caught this season have been bang average to absolute tedium by comparison.

Yes it was superb. Then the mogadon stinkfest of Forest v Villa came to remind us how shite our domestic football has become.

[ragr]

Watching the PSG vs BM game the other night reminded me why I like/liked football. Apart from (hopefully) the return game, games like that are few and far between.

I caught that PSG/Bayern game by pure luck as I had a rare spare evening alone with the telly - it was a remarkable game that put most other matches I've seen this season to shame. It wasn't just the talent it was the approach and the attitude on display right through both sides; the handful of Premiership games I've caught this season have been bang average to absolute tedium by comparison.

[daveshads]

Watching the PSG vs BM game the other night reminded me why I like/liked football. Apart from (hopefully) the return game, games like that are few and far between.
The old “Kings’ New Clothes” fairy tale seems more relevant to most of the fare served up today.
I see there has been some talk today (fake or otherwise?????) about French clubs “sniffing” around Julien and us being linked with Luis Filipe. I hope it’s not true. No problem to see Julien go but it would indicate that “The Project” goes on with our owners truly hoodwinked.

[ragr]

Ragr......they put in money 'blah blah blah'

£20m 24/25 and you cant blame them for wanting them to reduce that will player sales.

That's to be commended and I agree. However, that is the "what" they're doing and it's the "why" that is the source of my personal malaise. Even with that contribution I can't see that these owners have much affinity with "this" club and it could be any club that they're propping up in the hope of recouping their money. It's a fine line I'm walking with my thoughts here and it's likely just a pining for the days when football clubs were clubs and I'm missing that feeling of belonging that is necessary to my continued interest. Money has always been a a part of football as soon as it went pro. However, I can't continue to support and follow a club that mainly or solely exists in order to service a financial goal and where the focus is mainly on that. I can support a club that wins, draws and loses but not when any of those three options are fine to the hierarchy as long as servicing debt is undertaken.

Of course, this is a broader football issue and I'm not particularly enamoured of the rest of the pro game either right now.

As an aside, an X post yesterday from Premiership Club Bristol Bears RFC came to light that absolutely sums this up - I'm still not sure this isn't a joke:

"At Bristol Bears, we don't call ourselves
a rugby club. We are a marketing agency
that plays rugby. Yes, our players have to
be competent and able to deliver on the
field, but if they are not bringing any
value off the field, that genuinely factors
into our recruitment conversations."

[Abseits]

What's wrong with Watford's approach? Compare their last dozen years to ours, far better than ours by any metric you may choose. It is dumb to hang onto an under-achieving or mediocre manager, it doesn't make sense at all. The only negative aspect is the financial cost of paying them off.

JS is not catastrophically clueless but he has presided over a hugely disappointing disjointed and inconsistent season. There are too many tactically inept and naive games on his record here - there is a general laxity amongst our players far too often, he's not right for this league and we really should encourage him to call it quits and move on. If he digs in and won't go voluntarily I suspect he'll remain in post until his position becomes untenable in late October and he has to be sacked.

[SheepRanger]

Ragr......they put in money 'blah blah blah'

£20m 24/25 and you cant blame them for wanting them to reduce that will player sales.

But yes, lackluster performance come down to the manager, or is it the policy from the Board to blood young players, who will make errors and cost us points, to the thinking that no matter what they do oj the pitch, we ain't going up.

Our seasoned pros know they're playing for a club that wants to develop players over promotion. To a point they go through the motions and the manager gets the brunt because he cant motivate them.....apparently. Its impossible to motivate people who dont want to be motivated!

[daveshads]

I feel that you (ragr) are far from alone in thinking that way. Once it’s in your blood though, escaping is hard. And the good days can feel really good. But the others, of which there are far too many………..

The first club I supported was Hayes (Sir Les and Cyrille Regis links). They were a good side and eventually morphed into Hayes and Yeading. The height of their success was when they spent a short while in The Conference. Ever since that time they have drifted downwards. Clubs they thought of as equals (for example Wealdstone, Sutton Utd.) are now infinitely more successful. Even Uxbridge who were always considered a smaller team are in a higher league. And this year they even finished below Southall in their league.

My point……..

Our seemingly perennial lack of overall vision and ambition could have a dangerous adverse long term affect. Don’t let’s think it couldn’t happen to us. I think the people bankrolling our club have been sold a pup and need better counselling.

[ragr]

On a purely footballing front I think Julien should be removed. Not because of results, which don't go always go in your favour even if you perform well, but because of the inconsistency of performance that comes down entirely to motivation of the players - yes, injuries have deprived us of our first choices but there are no excuses for players turning up and clearly, demonstrably not being prepared to put much effort in. That is a player problem. It's also a managerial problem. The substitutions made on Saturday were just amateur hour stuff even in light of injuries and other excuses.

On the other hand, replacing him is utterly pointless because he'll just be superseded by a similar character who is utterly subservient to the clever(er) boys.

My solution is simple - and will appear dramatic and theatrical - is to sack myself. I've had enough. I've supported the team for nearly 50 years, albeit the last fifteen in an armchair capacity for one reason or another. I just can't can't go on supporting a "club" where very few of the people on the payroll give the slightest of genuine shits about what happens to the club and, most importantly, its supporters. With the possible exception of Andy Sinton all I can see from the upper levels of management to the players on the pitch and associated support staff are the "club" as an

a) opportunity.
b) project.
c) plaything.

Yes, the owners are pouring money in, blah, blah, blah but that doesn't mean they particularly care about the club, the history, pride, the shirt, or even football as a sport itself. It's performative management of an asset. The method by which we're trying to allow them to recoup on that investment doesn't look like generating what they want off the pitch and on it, apart from some very localised sparks of joy, it's largely a monotonous and tedious slog. I just can't get fired up any more to be interested in something that has very little meaning to people in positions who can make it meaningful or at least have an understanding of what it means to so many people and what it has meant in the past.

I'm not going to change allegiance - that would be madness. I may not even be able to sustain my lack of interest - "just when they thought I was out, they pull me back in."

Sad times, but it's really been bugging me this season and has now come to a head.

(Apologies if my depression is contagious.)

[Sussex]

I don't think JS is much of an improvement on Marti who i never rated that highly anyway. Too many poor performances over the season and too inconsistent for me. I would keep him and see what he does in the summer but it would be no suprise if he left after the final game.