Oh I do love the smell of meltdown in the evening..

[stainrodisalegend]

A lot of what Hubble says makes sense. Many fans didn't take the club seriously when Ramsay said there wasn't much money to spend but it was pretty obvious from way back in January that we were entering a long period of austerity. Where I have doubts with Hubble's post is that I am a little less optimistic about the rebuilding. We have gone from one extreme to the other in terms of investment. And when you look at a back line that includes Konchelsky, Hill and Perch I wonder how much this is re-building for the future and how much is chucking in a bunch of sub-standard players - I see no clever strategy there, just desperation and poor planning. With a genius manager/DOF you can build successfully without huge resources but jury is very much out on whether we have that and whether the board - and indeed the fans - have the patience for several years of fairly dire players and dire results. Just because boom and bust didn't work, no proof austerity will either.

I was never very confident about this season so am not growing too hot under the collar after one away defeat. One of the reasons why so many fans go into meltdown is that they are ridiculously over-confident in advance of the season and think that Jamie Mackie or AN Other will somehow do an Adel and fire us to promotion. So far (and the transfer window is still open) I have seen little sign of that. With Luongo and Chery aside there has been very little to get excited about so far. Once fans have stopped shouting at each other tonight and wake up to the new reality the mood might improve a bit.

[Wolfy]

If we do rebuild and do not go up for years and certain players perform well then do you really think they will stay in the Championship when EPL teams come in for them? W e would need to replace them. The only team I can think of who has developed their own players and then were force to sell as players who wanted to go to bigger clubs when they came sniffing and still be relatively successfull is Southampton. They are a well run organisation which we are not and I cannot see us doing it under the poor leadership of Tony. The bloke is clueless and continues down this path.

[RangerMick]

A lot of what Hubble says makes sense. Many fans didn't take the club seriously when Ramsay said there wasn't much money to spend but it was pretty obvious from way back in January that we were entering a long period of austerity. Where I have doubts with Hubble's post is that I am a little less optimistic about the rebuilding. We have gone from one extreme to the other in terms of investment. And when you look at a back line that includes Konchelsky, Hill and Perch I wonder how much this is re-building for the future and how much is chucking in a bunch of sub-standard players - I see no clever strategy there, just desperation and poor planning. With a genius manager/DOF you can build successfully without huge resources but jury is very much out on whether we have that and whether the board - and indeed the fans - have the patience for several years of fairly dire players and dire results. Just because boom and bust didn't work, no proof austerity will either.

I was never very confident about this season so am not growing too hot under the collar after one away defeat. One of the reasons why so many fans go into meltdown is that they are ridiculously over-confident in advance of the season and think that Jamie Mackie or AN Other will somehow do an Adel and fire us to promotion. So far (and the transfer window is still open) I have seen little sign of that. With Luongo and Chery aside there has been very little to get excited about so far. Once fans have stopped shouting at each other tonight and wake up to the new reality the mood might improve a bit.

While others might disagree, these are my sentiments exactly ! The one extreme to the other is hard to fathom, but maybe it is out of necessity. Like most on here, I agree things had to change drastically. Just concerned as to how the current approach with the so called 'rebuild' is supposed to work, and I mean long term.

[Hubble]

A lot of what Hubble says makes sense. Many fans didn't take the club seriously when Ramsay said there wasn't much money to spend but it was pretty obvious from way back in January that we were entering a long period of austerity. Where I have doubts with Hubble's post is that I am a little less optimistic about the rebuilding. We have gone from one extreme to the other in terms of investment. And when you look at a back line that includes Konchelsky, Hill and Perch I wonder how much this is re-building for the future and how much is chucking in a bunch of sub-standard players - I see no clever strategy there, just desperation and poor planning. With a genius manager/DOF you can build successfully without huge resources but jury is very much out on whether we have that and whether the board - and indeed the fans - have the patience for several years of fairly dire players and dire results. Just because boom and bust didn't work, no proof austerity will either.

I was never very confident about this season so am not growing too hot under the collar after one away defeat. One of the reasons why so many fans go into meltdown is that they are ridiculously over-confident in advance of the season and think that Jamie Mackie or AN Other will somehow do an Adel and fire us to promotion. So far (and the transfer window is still open) I have seen little sign of that. With Luongo and Chery aside there has been very little to get excited about so far. Once fans have stopped shouting at each other tonight and wake up to the new reality the mood might improve a bit.

You're right Stainrod, there's no proof 'austerity' as you call it will work. That's why I said there are no guarantees with the new approach. However, there are a couple of caveats:

1. we are still awaiting the FFP decision. Until then, it's understandable to err on the side of caution.
2. we are still awaiting the anticipated sale of our highest rated and paid players. Again, until then, it's probably right to err on the side of caution.

I expect that once these issues are resolved (whichever way they are resolved) we will have a much clearer picture of how the club plans to progress. So until then, we don't know how the future is likely to shape up, other than what's clear so far, i.e. a root and branch rebuild. If things go well with these two issues, then I'm sure we will see a relaxing of the (relative) austerity measures. Until that happens, I see no point in worrying over much. What will be will be.

[CroydonCaptainJack]

Poor post.

Compared to that brilliant one eh?

[oldskoolturk]

I think part of the 'meltdown' is because despite all the talk ultimately this wasn't a young inexperienced team that lost.

Our back 5 (including gk) had 3 over 35 our club captain and and a very experienced rb. In midfield was 32 year old Henry, mackie and then 2 players we are trying to sell for £25m. The only 2 players who could be considered inexperienced were our best 2 players in luongo and chery.

Ultimately it was a very experienced team who lost to what was a very very poor charlton side.

[stainrodisalegend]

You're right Stainrod, there's no proof 'austerity' as you call it will work. That's why I said there are no guarantees with the new approach. However, there are a couple of caveats:

1. we are still awaiting the FFP decision. Until then, it's understandable to err on the side of caution.
2. we are still awaiting the anticipated sale of our highest rated and paid players. Again, until then, it's probably right to err on the side of caution.

I expect that once these issues are resolved (whichever way they are resolved) we will have a much clearer picture of how the club plans to progress. So until then, we don't know how the future is likely to shape up, other than what's clear so far, i.e. a root and branch rebuild. If things go well with these two issues, then I'm sure we will see a relaxing of the (relative) austerity measures. Until that happens, I see no point in worrying over much. What will be will be.

Absolutely, you did acknowledge there were no guarantees and agree FFP is clearly a massive consideration. But the problem is that while these issues are not resolved the world of football does not stop so we have signed our usual dozen or so players, several of whom look very short term, but with no apparent strategy - other than they are mainly fairly bargain basement. It seems pretty clear that the club gave up on the Prem around Christmas so why wasn't this fabled new backroom team scouting the next generation of hot talent (the Swindon boys aside)? I am genuinely staggered that after the millions we have spent we are still relying on Clint at centre half and sundry other old-timers like Mackie who we know won't be good enough should we ever go up. It has been apparent to just about every Rs fan for years that we need more up front, but still that hasn't really been addressed. So I am a bit concerned (not toys out of the pram stuff, just raising the issue) whether we really are going about it the right way if we do want to emulate Southampton/ Swansea; and secondly, even if we are, whether our board will have the patience, especially if they see the new approach is even less successful for a few years than the old one.

[upperloft]

A lot of what Hubble says makes sense. Many fans didn't take the club seriously when Ramsay said there wasn't much money to spend but it was pretty obvious from way back in January that we were entering a long period of austerity. Where I have doubts with Hubble's post is that I am a little less optimistic about the rebuilding. We have gone from one extreme to the other in terms of investment. And when you look at a back line that includes Konchelsky, Hill and Perch I wonder how much this is re-building for the future and how much is chucking in a bunch of sub-standard players - I see no clever strategy there, just desperation and poor planning. With a genius manager/DOF you can build successfully without huge resources but jury is very much out on whether we have that and whether the board - and indeed the fans - have the patience for several years of fairly dire players and dire results. Just because boom and bust didn't work, no proof austerity will either.

I was never very confident about this season so am not growing too hot under the collar after one away defeat. One of the reasons why so many fans go into meltdown is that they are ridiculously over-confident in advance of the season and think that Jamie Mackie or AN Other will somehow do an Adel and fire us to promotion. So far (and the transfer window is still open) I have seen little sign of that. With Luongo and Chery aside there has been very little to get excited about so far. Once fans have stopped shouting at each other tonight and wake up to the new reality the mood might improve a bit.

Blinding post Staines.. Hit the nail right on the head.

[CroydonCaptainJack]

We won't be going back up for many seasons.
Hull and Derby on the other hand...........

Is that the same Derby that's choked two seasons running?

[Hubble]

Absolutely, you did acknowledge there were no guarantees and agree FFP is clearly a massive consideration. But the problem is that while these issues are not resolved the world of football does not stop so we have signed our usual dozen or so players, several of whom look very short term, but with no apparent strategy - other than they are mainly fairly bargain basement. It seems pretty clear that the club gave up on the Prem around Christmas so why wasn't this fabled new backroom team scouting the next generation of hot talent (the Swindon boys aside)? I am genuinely staggered that after the millions we have spent we are still relying on Clint at centre half and sundry other old-timers like Mackie who we know won't be good enough should we ever go up. It has been apparent to just about every Rs fan for years that we need more up front, but still that hasn't really been addressed. So I am a bit concerned (not toys out of the pram stuff, just raising the issue) whether we really are going about it the right way if we do want to emulate Southampton/ Swansea; and secondly, even if we are, whether our board will have the patience, especially if they see the new approach is even less successful for a few years than the old one.

Yeah, I agree with some of that. We ####ed up badly and we're still ####ing up it seems. But maybe that's inevitable to begin with, as this process unfolds. I still think we've turned a corner. I think clearly it's likely to be rough to begin with, as the aftershocks of the previous four seasons rumble on. But once we've navigated those choppy waters and we know the scale of the fine (and the news I've just read is that it could be as little as £8 million), then I expect to see an upturn in our fortunes. And I disagree with you about the player policy - it hasn't been all bad. I think the acquisition of Luongo and Chery, for example show aspiration and intent.

For these reasons, I disagree it's quite as bad as you seem to imply. I think there are some chinks of light.

[Hubble]

But on second thoughts, maybe it is as bad as you say it is!

[Stanley]

the Happies ( Who will not accept any sort of criticism or any different view other than everything is great and the sky is blue)

I think that description is very wide of the mark and thus discredits the rest of your post.

1) I wouldn't describe them as "Happies" at all. That would be way too crass and simplistic. I'd say they are simply in the camp of seeing the bigger picture of the long-term consolidation and rebuilding process that a club of our size has been crying out for over the last few years. So the irony is that THEY are actually the true "realists" - the very term the other side claims to be, but in fact are anything but.

2) Of course they "accept criticism" of the club, how absurd to suggest otherwise. And as explained above, how absurd to then suggest they think "everything is great and the sky is blue".

3) In fact criticism is essential of course, so long as it's constructive, as opposed to what comes across from the other side as being permanently and chronically cynical, pessimistic and doom-ridden.

[Stanley]

It has been apparent to just about every Rs fan for years that we need more up front, but still that hasn't really been addressed.

Really? Bit early to say that after just one game IMO. Give the likes of Chery, Polter, JET and Blackwood at least half a dozen games to show us what they can do I reckon.

[QPRDave]

I think that description is very wide of the mark and thus discredits the rest of your post.

1) I wouldn't describe them as "Happies" at all. That would be way too crass and simplistic. I'd say they are simply in the camp of seeing the bigger picture of the long-term consolidation and rebuilding process that a club of our size has been crying out for over the last few years. So the irony is that THEY are actually the true "realists" - the very term the other side claims to be, but in fact are anything but.

2) Of course they "accept criticism" of the club, how absurd to suggest otherwise. And as explained above, how absurd to then suggest they think "everything is great and the sky is blue".

3) In fact criticism is essential of course, so long as it's constructive, as opposed to what comes across from the other side as being permanently and chronically cynical, pessimistic and doom-ridden.

No "they" ...don't accept any sort of criticism or dissent or even a mickey take of anything regarding "their" holy grail of QPR....

Btw there should be no "they" or "we" ...We are all QPR, But I've got some weirdo that has to bring my name into
any post he does when having a moan about people who can see there's something not right.
If you'd like to check my posts yesterday I haven't called for Ramsey's head.....Mind you I suppose that would be classed as constructive?

I have said we'll struggle and won't get in the top 6, and have then been labelled by said weirdo and his chums...(not all...G?inger Ninja being 1, I can mention)
I have said this lge is tough, and again been howled at, as if I'd emptied my bowels in to Les Ferdinand's jacket pocket..
I'm told I have no right to an opinion because I was not at the game,...Again I have not commented on the game
And finally I'll stand by my belief that 2 yrs or more outside of the prem will do nothing but serve to make the gap financially impossible
for us to ever get back to that division, which I believe in turn will see Tony and probably Mittal pull out along with any new infrastructure Promised

[Olly]

And finally I'll stand by my belief that 2 yrs or more outside of the prem will do nothing but serve to make the gap financially impossible
for us to ever get back to that division, which I believe in turn will see Tony and probably Mittal pull out along with any new infrastructure Promised

Tell that to Bournemouth