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  • Of course it is Tarbs. We want our cake and eat it every time. Absolutely fine for us to rip off all their resources, use their people as slaves or slave labour, or cheap immigrants to do our dirty work, but as soon as they want something back, #### off, no way, the dirty thieving #######s, get them out of our country.

    It's absolutely okay for us to bomb the #### out of their countries too apparently, because we do it in the name of democracy, bringing peace and prosperity... oh wait, no hold on.... that hasn't quite worked out, has it?

    Comment


    • As I said, Australian pragmatism.
      Stand around apologising and feeling guilty for what happened in a previous generation or try and deal with the here and now.
      If it is a genuine quote from her, or anybody else for that matter, it's basic common sense.
      If you don't like it, shape up or ship out.
      “He'll regret it till his dying day, if ever he lives that long”
      Will Danaher

      Comment


      • Fair enough Itso, but that doesn't remove the underlying problem and that's not going away. Decades, centuries in fact, of domineering imperialism has a long knock-on effect. I do however agree with the 'when in Rome' philosophy. Bottom line there's no simple solution. But in not creating the situation in the first place, ie. not continuing to bomb the #### out of people, you stand a chance of fixing the problem. And Australia are a party to the Middle East conflict as well, they contributed, they're Western allies and they've signed up to the Western pact.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Hubble View Post
          Of course it is Tarbs. We want our cake and eat it every time. Absolutely fine for us to rip off all their resources, use their people as slaves or slave labour, or cheap immigrants to do our dirty work, but as soon as they want something back, #### off, no way, the dirty thieving #######s, get them out of our country.

          It's absolutely okay for us to bomb the #### out of their countries too apparently, because we do it in the name of democracy, bringing peace and prosperity... oh wait, no hold on.... that hasn't quite worked out, has it?
          so Hubs we just got to bend over and take it. There is an increasing number of people who are getting a bit pi**ed off with what's going on. I shouldn't be made responsible for the mistakes in the past. Certainly not an innocent young 8 year old. Sadly I haven't got a clue to what the answer is, but I can't see anything but more bleak news ahead
          I must away now, I can no longer tarry
          This morning's tempest I have to cross
          I must be guided without a stumble
          Into the arms I love the most

          Comment


          • Originally posted by lymehoop View Post
            so Hubs we just got to bend over and take it. There is an increasing number of people who are getting a bit pi**ed off with what's going on. I shouldn't be made responsible for the mistakes in the past. Certainly not an innocent young 8 year old. Sadly I haven't got a clue to what the answer is, but I can't see anything but more bleak news ahead
            Agree with all of that. And I also don't know how to fix this, short of inventing a time machine.

            What I do know however, is that hatred won't fix this. Neither will blindly following the sort right wing xenophobia that Britain First spout on social media. As a people (and by that I mean the whole Western world), we need to educate ourselves on what's actually going on, and that means not trusting the Daily Mail or any other government or Murdoch influenced media. It means actually taking an interest in finding out the stuff the media don't want you to see. From there we need to choose a stance politically.

            Personally, I don't think any of the major parties have the right policies in mind to fix this problem. The Tories will continue to turn a blind eye to whats actually going on, because it suits their agenda and they can continue to reap the financial rewards of a thriving arms trade to the Middle East. Corbyn ain't fixing things either, although I do believe he has a better handle of what's actually going on than anyone in the Conservative leadership. My feeling is he's just too soft to tackle the problem head on.

            Obama had the right idea, he didn't trust regimes like Saudi and tried his best to confront them on subjects like sponsoring terrorism. But the US public, in all their wisdom have picked the polar opposite to succeed him!
            Last edited by Tarbie; 29-05-2017, 04:52 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Hubble View Post
              Of course it is Tarbs. We want our cake and eat it every time. Absolutely fine for us to rip off all their resources, use their people as slaves or slave labour, or cheap immigrants to do our dirty work, but as soon as they want something back, #### off, no way, the dirty thieving #######s, get them out of our country.

              It's absolutely okay for us to bomb the #### out of their countries too apparently, because we do it in the name of democracy, bringing peace and prosperity... oh wait, no hold on.... that hasn't quite worked out, has it?
              I dont want any cake.
              Dont want us in any other country and i dont want us to drop any bombs.
              I voted no on both. (Oh no i didnt, i didnt get given the chance)
              So to sum it up, no other country input and no bombs and much stricter borders is the only thing most of the right wants.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Kevin Mcleod View Post
                I dont want any cake.
                Dont want us in any other country and i dont want us to drop any bombs.
                I voted no on both. (Oh no i didnt, i didnt get given the chance)
                So to sum it up, no other country input and no bombs and much stricter borders is the only thing most of the right wants.
                You say that Kev, but the right keeps on doing it. The right keeps on letting more and more immigrants in, keeps on bombing, keeps on meddling. But I guess you don't mean the Tories, you mean the genuine right, the right who, ironically, are not that dissimilar to the Corbyn left in some ways. You're also right to point out you never got given a chance to vote on any of this stuff. A proper representative democracy is what we need, not the sham we have now.

                Comment


                • Hubble, you post as if the entire problem is caused by the west.

                  I dont see enough balance in your views.

                  You rarely lay part of the responsibility at the door of extremist home-grown radicalisation and Jihadist terrorism, which clearly plays a massive role; and the fact that they also attack countries that have played no part in bombing their lands.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Stanley View Post
                    Hubble, you post as if the entire problem is caused by the west.

                    I dont see enough balance in your views.

                    You rarely lay part of the responsibility at the door of extremist home-grown radicalisation and Jihadist terrorism, which clearly plays a massive role; and the fact that they also attack countries that have played no part in bombing their lands.
                    I've taken that as self-evident Stan. I've made my views about Saudi sponsored Wahhabism very clear, especially in my specific response to you earlier in this thread and my post just after that. I've made it very clear here and elsewhere that the Saudis bear a huge amount of the blame in fostering radical Islam.

                    But as for not seeing enough balance in my views, crikey, have you read some of the other posts on here mate?! I don't see much balance in many of those! The most balanced poster in this thread is Tarbie IMO. But in a way I guess I should thank you for wanting to pick me up on this, because it means you're holding me to very high standards! However, I think if you look at the overall balance of this thread, I am contributing some essential facts and opinions towards that end. the West's role in all of this has to be highlighted, because the Islamic role is bloody obvious, and the problem is, that gets nearly all the attention, and the West's role is ignored or not known about. So I think ultimately my posts are pretty balanced mate, or at least, I am posting in the interests of balance.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Hubble View Post
                      I've taken that as self-evident Stan. I've made my views about Saudi sponsored Wahhabism very clear, especially in my specific response to you earlier in this thread and my post just after that. I've made it very clear here and elsewhere that the Saudis bear a huge amount of the blame in fostering radical Islam.

                      But as for not seeing enough balance in my views, crikey, have you read some of the other posts on here mate?! I don't see much balance in many of those! The most balanced poster in this thread is Tarbie IMO. But in a way I guess I should thank you for wanting to pick me up on this, because it means you're holding me to very high standards! However, I think if you look at the overall balance of this thread, I am contributing some essential facts and opinions towards that end. the West's role in all of this has to be highlighted, because the Islamic role is bloody obvious, and the problem is, that gets nearly all the attention, and the West's role is ignored or not known about. So I think ultimately my posts are pretty balanced mate, or at least, I am posting in the interests of balance.
                      Yes but I'm not only referring to Saudi sponsored Wahhabism. That's bad enough! As I say, I'm also talking about the extremist home-grown radicalisation that's going on in Mosques up and down the country, including the one the Manchester bomber attended. And the C4 documentary which captured secret footage of incitement to Jihad and the indoctrination and abuse of children in UK madrasas. All of this is going on right here in Britain, not just Saudi Arabia. I wouldn't describe all of that as 'bloody obvious'. But yes, of course I agree with you that the West's role needs highlighting just as much.

                      And yes, I do hold you to very high standards! And I highly value your in-depth knowledge. But you've set that bar high now mate, so it disappoints me a little when I then see it slip

                      Comment


                      • Haha, well I shall take that as a compliment!



                        But, for the record, I abhor the radicalisation of Islam, here and abroad, and the sick ####ers who promote it. I want them out of my country.

                        I did post this earlier in the thread btw Stan, which you may have missed:

                        Originally posted by Hubble View Post
                        I'll tell you something though, I agree that many of these people should not even be in this country. And it was a Blair immigration policy that opened the floodgates. I also agree we have been far too soft in dealing with radical Islamism. I do not believe we should have Islamic faith schools in this country, preaching a religious view of the world that is entirely at odds with modern, rational thinking. We, the ordinary people of this country have been betrayed by successive governments whose interests, it seems to me, are serving themselves and their paymasters, not the general public.

                        Comment


                        • Yes Hubble, I do agree that we've reached the point where it's finally time to abolish not just Islamic faith based schools, but perhaps religious schools of all types too. I no longer see a place for them in modern secular Britain. The cons far outweigh the pros when it causes so much division and segregation. More has to be done to tackle extremism in UK mosques too.

                          The Manchester attacks were a real game-changer for me because for the first time in our lives it involved the direct and deliberate targeting of children in the UK. And if we only have the security resources to monitor 3000 out of 20,000 extremists currently known to the authorities then that situation needs seriously addressing too.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Stanley View Post
                            Yes Hubble, I do agree that we've reached the point where it's finally time to abolish not just Islamic faith based schools, but perhaps religious schools of all types too. I no longer see a place for them in modern secular Britain. The cons far outweigh the pros when it causes so much division and segregation. More has to be done to tackle extremism in UK mosques too.

                            The Manchester attacks were a real game-changer for me because for the first time in our lives it involved the direct and deliberate targeting of children in the UK. And if we only have the security resources to monitor 3000 out of 20,000 extremists currently known to the authorities then that situation needs seriously addressing too.
                            Can anybody at all really even begin to use the past to justify that?

                            No. Not even the vast majority of peace loving muslim people.

                            Getting sick and tired of western apologists trying to do so as if it makes them look "nice people". Makes me sick.

                            Comment


                            • Pick the bones out of this then:

                              "“What more can a law abiding Muslim do?” asked an exasperated radio host yesterday morning, after it emerged that the Manchester bomber’s family and friends tipped off MI5, who then missed five opportunities to stop him."

                              "I wasn’t surprised that he’d been reported – Muslims are as scared of getting blown up as everyone else.

                              "Many Muslim nations have been ruined by these people. Our communities have been torn apart. We worry about our children’s minds being attacked. You check your kids’ web histories for #### – we do that too, but some of us also check for jihadi twitter accounts."

                              "Our Prime Minister was Home Secretary and in charge of MI5 when they were tipped off about Abedi – do the victims’ families have a right to an explanation of why the warnings were not heard?"

                              "Let it not be said that Muslims didn’t cooperate with the authorities to report Abedi. Abedi flew a black Jihadi flag out of his window in Manchester. He was banned from his mosque. His Imam reported him. His family reported him. His friends reported him. He wasn’t a lone wolf – he was a known wolf.

                              But MI5 didn’t stop him. Not because they didn’t want to: because they are being run on a shoestring, while Whitehall spends taxpayers’ money on propping up friends in Libya.

                              I am willing to pay more taxes if it means 8-year-old girls come home alive from pop concerts. I’m sure you are too. But even if you’re not, that might not be necessary: we spend twice as much on Trident as we do on security and intelligence.

                              Last week, my niece asked me for Ariana Grande tickets. I’ve promised to take her, as soon as the tour restarts. I will do anything I can to help our security services keep her safe. What more can a law abiding Muslim do?"


                              Our Prime Minister was Home Secretary and in charge of MI5 when they were tipped off about Abedi – do the victims’ families have a right to an explanation of why the warnings were not heard?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hubble View Post
                                Pick the bones out of this then:

                                "“What more can a law abiding Muslim do?” asked an exasperated radio host yesterday morning, after it emerged that the Manchester bomber’s family and friends tipped off MI5, who then missed five opportunities to stop him."

                                "I wasn’t surprised that he’d been reported – Muslims are as scared of getting blown up as everyone else.

                                "Many Muslim nations have been ruined by these people. Our communities have been torn apart. We worry about our children’s minds being attacked. You check your kids’ web histories for #### – we do that too, but some of us also check for jihadi twitter accounts."

                                "Our Prime Minister was Home Secretary and in charge of MI5 when they were tipped off about Abedi – do the victims’ families have a right to an explanation of why the warnings were not heard?"

                                "Let it not be said that Muslims didn’t cooperate with the authorities to report Abedi. Abedi flew a black Jihadi flag out of his window in Manchester. He was banned from his mosque. His Imam reported him. His family reported him. His friends reported him. He wasn’t a lone wolf – he was a known wolf.

                                But MI5 didn’t stop him. Not because they didn’t want to: because they are being run on a shoestring, while Whitehall spends taxpayers’ money on propping up friends in Libya.

                                I am willing to pay more taxes if it means 8-year-old girls come home alive from pop concerts. I’m sure you are too. But even if you’re not, that might not be necessary: we spend twice as much on Trident as we do on security and intelligence.

                                Last week, my niece asked me for Ariana Grande tickets. I’ve promised to take her, as soon as the tour restarts. I will do anything I can to help our security services keep her safe. What more can a law abiding Muslim do?"


                                http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a7757726.html
                                Shocking if true!

                                Comment

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