Europe. In or out?

[Hubble]

I think the leave campaign has go it wrong. It's not the British way to simply leave. We should be be slung out for causing too much trouble. So stay in, then wind the EU up so much they vote for Britain to leave!

[Hove Ranger]

[Itsonlyagame]

I think the leave campaign has go it wrong. It's not the British way to simply leave. We should be be slung out for causing too much trouble. So stay in, then wind the EU up so much they vote for Britain to leave!

I like the sound of that. Let's start in France in two weeks time.

[jmelanie]

I like the sound of that. Let's start in France in two weeks time.

I think it's difficult to get thrown out. Look at Greece, they should have been thrown out long ago. As to causing problems in France, there are going to be enough problems with all the French workers going on strike.

[Itsonlyagame]

I think it's difficult to get thrown out. Look at Greece, they should have been thrown out long ago. As to causing problems in France, there are going to be enough problems with all the French workers going on strike.

Could be fun trying though. Boris Johnson should start by marching into the EU parliament and nutting that Junker tw@t.

[Hubble]

I think it's difficult to get thrown out. Look at Greece, they should have been thrown out long ago. As to causing problems in France, there are going to be enough problems with all the French workers going on strike.

Instead of throwing them out - which would have actually been good for Greece - they kept the poor buggers in and are systematically bleeding them dry. This is one example of where the EU has utterly failed both its members and its ethos.

If the EU had been true to its values, it would have shared the burden and found a far less draconian - and - let's face it - banker driven response to a crisis which should never have happened in the first place. The Greeks should never have been let into the EU based on a massive loan from Goldman Sachs that was withdrawn - at interest - almost immediately. The EU knew this, so they are culpable in the total balls up that is the Greek economy; therefore, they are equally responsible for sorting it out, not destroying the Greek welfare state whilst at the same time privatising all its institutions and utilities so that fat cats can make an even fatter profit.

[Hubble]

Could be fun trying though. Boris Johnson should start by marching into the EU parliament and nutting that Junker tw@t.

Exactly!

[QCR]

I am a big fan of not going out. I hear the calls for “taking back control” from “unelected autocrats” (as opposed to our totally accountable institutions like the Civil Service, House of Lords and the Queen). Who would be taking back control? Not you and me - we have no control, never have. Blair was elected, took no notice of what people said about the Iraq War. Thatcher was elected, took no notice of what people said about just about everything. Neither were actually voted out by the electorate. I then see a list of “prominent” Brexit campaigners, Boris, Gove, Howard, Redwood, Farage - yes, let’s hand back control to them - ##### to a man. My view has long been that if you asked any UK voters what their list of burning issues were, Europe would have been way down the list. This is a Tory internal squabble we’ve been dragged into by having it dressed up as a question about immigration.
Most workers in this country are employees. Their lot has been improved by the “interference” of Europe - maternity and paternity leave, working time regs, all that health and safety ########, discrimination laws, TUPE, even Human Rights legislation (which by the way isn't a million miles away from the Magna Carta), right to work anywhere in EU, reciprocal NHS type cover, etc etc. I cannot think of a single way that I have been directly adversely affected by the UK being in the EU.

Can you?

[Itsonlyagame]

I am a big fan of not going out. I hear the calls for “taking back control” from “unelected autocrats” (as opposed to our totally accountable institutions like the Civil Service, House of Lords and the Queen). Who would be taking back control? Not you and me - we have no control, never have. Blair was elected, took no notice of what people said about the Iraq War. Thatcher was elected, took no notice of what people said about just about everything. Neither were actually voted out by the electorate. I then see a list of “prominent” Brexit campaigners, Boris, Gove, Howard, Redwood, Farage - yes, let’s hand back control to them - ##### to a man. My view has long been that if you asked any UK voters what their list of burning issues were, Europe would have been way down the list. This is a Tory internal squabble we’ve been dragged into by having it dressed up as a question about immigration.
Most workers in this country are employees. Their lot has been improved by the “interference” of Europe - maternity and paternity leave, working time regs, all that health and safety ########, discrimination laws, TUPE, even Human Rights legislation (which by the way isn't a million miles away from the Magna Carta), right to work anywhere in EU, reciprocal NHS type cover, etc etc. I cannot think of a single way that I have been directly adversely affected by the UK being in the EU.

Can you?

Our fisherman might

[lymehoop]

I am a big fan of not going out. I hear the calls for “taking back control” from “unelected autocrats” (as opposed to our totally accountable institutions like the Civil Service, House of Lords and the Queen). Who would be taking back control? Not you and me - we have no control, never have. Blair was elected, took no notice of what people said about the Iraq War. Thatcher was elected, took no notice of what people said about just about everything. Neither were actually voted out by the electorate. I then see a list of “prominent” Brexit campaigners, Boris, Gove, Howard, Redwood, Farage - yes, let’s hand back control to them - ##### to a man. My view has long been that if you asked any UK voters what their list of burning issues were, Europe would have been way down the list. This is a Tory internal squabble we’ve been dragged into by having it dressed up as a question about immigration.
Most workers in this country are employees. Their lot has been improved by the “interference” of Europe - maternity and paternity leave, working time regs, all that health and safety ########, discrimination laws, TUPE, even Human Rights legislation (which by the way isn't a million miles away from the Magna Carta), right to work anywhere in EU, reciprocal NHS type cover, etc etc. I cannot think of a single way that I have been directly adversely affected by the UK being in the EU.

Can you?

ask the people of Boston or Felixstowe or countless other towns who have changed out of all recognition

[jmelanie]

I am a big fan of not going out. I hear the calls for “taking back control” from “unelected autocrats” (as opposed to our totally accountable institutions like the Civil Service, House of Lords and the Queen). Who would be taking back control? Not you and me - we have no control, never have. Blair was elected, took no notice of what people said about the Iraq War. Thatcher was elected, took no notice of what people said about just about everything. Neither were actually voted out by the electorate. I then see a list of “prominent” Brexit campaigners, Boris, Gove, Howard, Redwood, Farage - yes, let’s hand back control to them - ##### to a man. My view has long been that if you asked any UK voters what their list of burning issues were, Europe would have been way down the list. This is a Tory internal squabble we’ve been dragged into by having it dressed up as a question about immigration.
Most workers in this country are employees. Their lot has been improved by the “interference” of Europe - maternity and paternity leave, working time regs, all that health and safety ########, discrimination laws, TUPE, even Human Rights legislation (which by the way isn't a million miles away from the Magna Carta), right to work anywhere in EU, reciprocal NHS type cover, etc etc. I cannot think of a single way that I have been directly adversely affected by the UK being in the EU.

Can you?

Ask the small businessmen (who make up a large proportion of workers in the U.K.) who spend hours filling out forms for the benefit of the EU. Most of which have no point to them whatsoever. The government didn't want to put a tax on utilities but the EU insisted on a 5% tax (in fact they actually wanted a much higher tax). The French pay less than us for utilities because the government subsidies gas and electricity and won't allow their government run companies to be bought by foreigners. Yet these same companies (EDF for example) can purchase companies in the U.K. The French and other countries love being in the EU because they find all sorts of ways to get round the absurd rules. In the U.K. we mostly try to abide by these rules to the detriment of the citizens in this country.

[stainrodisalegend]

ask the people of Boston or Felixstowe or countless other towns who have changed out of all recognition

And how would that change if we leave? Even most Brexiteers want to remain in the single market - and that requires the free movement of goods, services and LABOUR. Its written on the tin.

[stainrodisalegend]

They will when Turkey have them over a barrel regarding the migration crisis, who would have thought they would allow the visa free travel to the schengan area?

If you are right and Cameron would allow the Turks in anyway - I doubt that BTW, but let us say you are right - why withdraw from Europe because of it? Even Boris Johnson reckons Britain has benefited from cheap labour from abroad. Over half our immigration is from countries outside the EU. If we want to stop that we could at a stroke. No need to b*gger up our economy by withdrawing from Europe if you want to reduce immigration. Britain has its own agreement with Tunisia for instance to allow its people to work here - but you never hear Nigel Farage complaining about that, because its easier to bore on and complain about "Europe"...

[stainrodisalegend]

I lead a (services) business unit WW for one of the worlds largest corporates. Before that, I led Europe. It's very very difficult for anyone to know with any accuracy the ramifications of leaving Europe (which alone, is enough to make me vote stay - why take such a considerable risk??) but from my personal experience (all I can go on), being part of Europe has led to significantly LESS red tape (day to day business) than if we were outside. Within Europe I can utilise resources across EU borders (send deep skill where it's needed on specific projects etc) without any fuss whatsoever - as soon as those resources need to leave (or we need to use resources from outside) the complexity increases by orders of magnitude. Complexity = Cost. In the end, who foots the bill (ultimately). I'm sure you don't need me to tell you it won't be the corporates. A clear vote IN for me

An extremely sensible post - which is probably why it was ignored...

[lymehoop]

The Tory minister who tried to claim that Britain would have no veto on Turkish entry - and thus on allowing millions of Turkish people to come here and work - was ripped to shreds and even her allies on the Brexit side were forced to admit this was just plain factually wrong

would Cameron use the veto vote though, he has been advocating Turkish entry for the last 10 years. What worries me no one at Westminster seems to mind the mind-boggling numbers coming in