Europe. In or out?

[Hoop-du-Jour]

My heart says leave ,with the impending inclusion of Turkey into Europe ,and the fact that we need to distance ourselves from the Islamificaction of Europe . But leaving us with Britain under sole control of the Bullingdon boys Tory government ,scares the s hit out of me , the government are attacking the working class at every opportunity and without anyone to keep them in check its only going to get worse .
I dont know which way to go , at the moment ....

How are they attacking the working class at every opportunity?? Tax allowances more than doubled taking millions of low paid workers out of paying any tax, introducing living wage increasing earnings for millions of low paid. All labour and Gordon Brown could come up with was tax credits, basically a way to subsidise greedy corporations wage bills at the expense of the tax payer. I don't see the working class being worse off now, only the benefit classes.

[lymehoop]

How are they attacking the working class at every opportunity?? Tax allowances more than doubled taking millions of low paid workers out of paying any tax, introducing living wage increasing earnings for millions of low paid. All labour and Gordon Brown could come up with was tax credits, basically a way to subsidise greedy corporations wage bills at the expense of the tax payer. I don't see the working class being worse off now, only the benefit classes.

some on here hate the Tories so much they'd vote Remain knowing full well Turkey and it's millions will be let into this country. Once that happens, it will be a one party state. Job done

[gaza09]

My heart says leave ,with the impending inclusion of Turkey into Europe ,and the fact that we need to distance ourselves from the Islamificaction of Europe . But leaving us with Britain under sole control of the Bullingdon boys Tory government ,scares the s hit out of me , the government are attacking the working class at every opportunity and without anyone to keep them in check its only going to get worse .
I dont know which way to go , at the moment ....

That's democracy for you, last year the electorate elected a conservative government and it is up to them to govern our nation for five years. If we don't like what they have done we can throw them out. Who the hell voted for the EU to keep anyone in check?
How do we vote out the European Commission if we disagree with what they do?

The left in this country have completely lost its way, they have such a hatred for the tories they can't see anything else past that hatred,
The late Bob Crowe understood that the EU was just a corporatist club to help the haves and not the have nots, he understood how damaging freedom of movement was to the working class (his union members)

I can't believe any working class person wanting to stay in the EU, it's utter madness
To quote the late great Tony Benn
"I'd rather a bad government, then a good King"

[nanocopic]

How are they attacking the working class at every opportunity?? Tax allowances more than doubled taking millions of low paid workers out of paying any tax, introducing living wage increasing earnings for millions of low paid. All labour and Gordon Brown could come up with was tax credits, basically a way to subsidise greedy corporations wage bills at the expense of the tax payer. I don't see the working class being worse off now, only the benefit classes.

The living wage is the same as the minimum wage normal increase would be. Plus this actually scraps the living wage in London therefore London based workers will be worse off due to the new living wage being lower.

[jmelanie]

Lord Owen (who I was surprised is supporting Vote to Leave) gave a very good speech on BBC Parliament which you can watch on Catch Up.

[Hoop-du-Jour]

The living wage is the same as the minimum wage normal increase would be. Plus this actually scraps the living wage in London therefore London based workers will be worse off due to the new living wage being lower.

I'm struggling to make sense of this one mate. How is the National Living Wage the same as the National Minimum Wage Increase?

On your next bit, if I'm right, you're comparing the Living Wage Foundation rates compared to the Govt National Living Wage. These are two different things in as much as the NMW and the LWF were and still are and will still continue to exist alongside the NLW, nothing has been scrapped, just an increase in pay for 25 and over workers.

[vespa]

How are they attacking the working class at every opportunity?? Tax allowances more than doubled taking millions of low paid workers out of paying any tax, introducing living wage increasing earnings for millions of low paid. All labour and Gordon Brown could come up with was tax credits, basically a way to subsidise greedy corporations wage bills at the expense of the tax payer. I don't see the working class being worse off now, only the benefit classes.

Well for starters ,they are implementing the Trade Union reform bill ,trying to take away ,workers rights to withdraw labour ,i dont see them trying to tackle companies that break employment agreements . There is an ever increasing gap between the rich and the poor , with workers in insecure employment ,too scared to stand up for their rights , we are heading back to Victorian values .

[vespa]

some on here hate the Tories so much they'd vote Remain knowing full well Turkey and it's millions will be let into this country. Once that happens, it will be a one party state. Job done

I`m sure its Cameron the head of the Conservative party who wants us to remain .

[vespa]

That's democracy for you, last year the electorate elected a conservative government and it is up to them to govern our nation for five years. If we don't like what they have done we can throw them out. Who the hell voted for the EU to keep anyone in check?
How do we vote out the European Commission if we disagree with what they do?

The left in this country have completely lost its way, they have such a hatred for the tories they can't see anything else past that hatred,
The late Bob Crowe understood that the EU was just a corporatist club to help the haves and not the have nots, he understood how damaging freedom of movement was to the working class (his union members)

I can't believe any working class person wanting to stay in the EU, it's utter madness
To quote the late great Tony Benn
"I'd rather a bad government, then a good King"

Good post gaza. My union ,Aslef is backing the leave campaign . But as i said , i`m still undecided . Its difficult , to get any facts from either side ,its mainly just scaremongering from people with their own agendas .

[gaza09]

Good post gaza. My union ,Aslef is backing the leave campaign . But as i said , i`m still undecided . Its difficult , to get any facts from either side ,its mainly just scaremongering from people with their own agendas .

Very true, best not to believe a word any of them say. What it all boils down to is do you wish to pool sovereignty with 27 other nations to provide us with stronger trading power. Or do you wish for us to be governed solely by our parliament and courts of law, with our sole interests at heart.

[Jimmy Floyd Rabbit]

Good post gaza. My union ,Aslef is backing the leave campaign . But as i said , i`m still undecided . Its difficult , to get any facts from either side ,its mainly just scaremongering from people with their own agendas .

I'm a staunch RMT man myself Vesp and agree with you 100%

[Shania]

Not sure how brexit will affect you society with regards to classes? If you say no, will it close the gap between the rich and the poor?

[lymehoop]

I`m sure its Cameron the head of the Conservative party who wants us to remain .

don't forget your mate Corbyn, disgrace Labour have backed the Remains. It's the low paid and the building sector who have paid the price for this mass influx

[lymehoop]

Not sure how brexit will affect you society with regards to classes? If you say no, will it close the gap between the rich and the poor?

probably not Shania, for me it''s about losing our identity, bit by bit it's being chipped away

[Itsonlyagame]

Very true, best not to believe a word any of them say. What it all boils down to is do you wish to pool sovereignty with 27 other nations to provide us with stronger trading power. Or do you wish for us to be governed solely by our parliament and courts of law, with our sole interests at heart.

Thats what it boils down to.
Vote on what we're led to believe, by people who nearly always have their own agenda or are basing their opinions on supposition. Or vote on the facts as we know them. Leaving means we're not dictated to by unelected EU officials and we will have more power to control our borders.
As has been said, it's the low paid and construction workers in particular who have suffered the most. Your average middle class family are loving it. Cheaper extensions/loft conversions and their houses cleaned and ridiculously named children cared for by someone who charges peanuts. No disrespect to anybody who comes to Britain for a better life, in fact hats off to them for having the gumption to do it. At some point however, infrastructure can't cope and in this climate of savage cuts to schools, social housing and the NHS, a line has to be drawn.