Europe. In or out?

[jmelanie]

So this petition for a 2nd referendum has surpassed 3 million votes. I analysed some of the raw data which was quite interesting.

Current population of Vatican City: 842

Number of signatures from Vatican City: 40,519

Seems legit, must be some sort of divine intervention.

The people signing this petition are not very bright. If they had wanted to change the rules regarding this referendum, it would have had to been legislated before the referendum. You cannot make legislation after an event has taken place. This petition could possible change future referenda, but I don't see us having any referenda in the near future.

[Jeems]

The people signing this petition are not very bright. If they had wanted to change the rules regarding this referendum, it would have had to been legislated before the referendum. You cannot make legislation after an event has taken place. This petition could possible change future referenda, but I don't see us having any referenda in the near future.

Especially when a high number of signatures are from people making multiple accounts/not even from the UK.

[Shania]

This is absolutely brilliant from John Pilger. Along with the article I posted above, I encourage everyone involved in this debate to read it: http://johnpilger.com/articles/why-t...d-no-to-europe

A few snippets from it to whet your appetite:

"The majority vote by Britons to leave the European Union was an act of raw democracy. Millions of ordinary people refused to be bullied, intimidated and dismissed with open contempt by their presumed betters in the major parties, the leaders of the business and banking oligarchy and the media.

This was, in great part, a vote by those angered and demoralised by the sheer arrogance of the apologists for the "remain" campaign and the dismemberment of a socially just civil life in Britain. The last bastion of the historic reforms of 1945, the National Health Service, has been so subverted by Tory and Labour-supported privateers it is fighting for its life."

"The most effective propagandists of the "European ideal" have not been the far right, but an insufferably patrician class for whom metropolitan London is the United Kingdom. Its leading members see themselves as liberal, enlightened, cultivated tribunes of the 21st century zeitgeist, even "cool". What they really are is a bourgeoisie with insatiable consumerist tastes and ancient instincts of their own superiority. In their house paper, the Guardian, they have gloated, day after day, at those who would even consider the EU profoundly undemocratic, a source of social injustice and a virulent extremism known as "neoliberalism". "

From an outsider´s point of view, this seems to be pretty much spot on.

[Hubble]

Well said Hubble, and you actually made me read the Guardian for the first and last time.

Well done Dave!

[Hubble]

As I'm sure many of you know, as well as the massive support on a petition for a second referendum, there is also the legality of the referendum being discussed - in the sense that, as far as I understand it, it does not represent a binding legal condition, but is in effect, more of a grand opinion poll (in a purely legal sense). In other words, the government is not bound to ratify it.

Now it can't come as any surprise that there is huge resistance to this referendum result, and that people are seeking all sorts of ways to either overturn it or invalidate it. This is not going to go away. Apparently the Liberal Party have said they will take the UK back into the EU if the Brexit vote results in a General Election (and should, of course, they get elected).

Personally I was disappointed to see Cameron resign, because I felt as Prime Minister, it was his duty to remain in his post and oversee the smoothest transition possible. I know he has said he will remain to see this through until October, but all he's done is add further uncertainty to the process, in what is tantamount to a massive flounce.


That there are aftershocks and all sorts of uncertainties is of course entirely to be expected. But the political establishment needs to sort itself out. Instead it seems to be descending into backstabbing and chaos. The Labour party is imploding as we speak. However, I see this as a further positive effect of this historic and unprecendented vote: radical change is coming, and change is necessary, life affirming and good. Hold on to your hats.

[jmelanie]

The experts have forgotten one important point. The prime minister (whoever that might be) can no longer call a general election. This is because of the change to fixed term parliaments. From what I understand the only way an election can be called is if there is a vote of no confidence in the government and since they hold the majority, whatever their differences they would not want to run the risk of losing their seats. There is no way at the present time that the labour party would want another election. Also a general election at this time will not help the country in a period when we are negotiating our exit from the EU.

Hopefully once things have settled down, all parties will get together so that we can try to get the best deal for the U.K. outside of the EU. In the next couple of weeks (starting on Monday) we will see how this is going to happen.

[gaza09]

Absolutely fantastic achievement guys, the country is split in half, and now we have in prospect a rabid right wing regime that will obviously have all of your instincts at heart. Well done let's see what pans out over the next few months, I wouldn't hold you breath, good luck leave voters!

I like the majority of the country want a right wing government, it's what we voted for it's called DEMOCRACY

[cross it Dave]

As I'm sure many of you know, as well as the massive support on a petition for a second referendum, there is also the legality of the referendum being discussed - in the sense that, as far as I understand it, it does not represent a binding legal condition, but is in effect, more of a grand opinion poll (in a purely legal sense). In other words, the government is not bound to ratify it.

Now it can't come as any surprise that there is huge resistance to this referendum result, and that people are seeking all sorts of ways to either overturn it or invalidate it. This is not going to go away. Apparently the Liberal Party have said they will take the UK back into the EU if the Brexit vote results in a General Election (and should, of course, they get elected).

Personally I was disappointed to see Cameron resign, because I felt as Prime Minister, it was his duty to remain in his post and oversee the smoothest transition possible. I know he has said he will remain to see this through until October, but all he's done is add further uncertainty to the process, in what is tantamount to a massive flounce.


That there are aftershocks and all sorts of uncertainties is of course entirely to be expected. But the political establishment needs to sort itself out. Instead it seems to be descending into backstabbing and chaos. The Labour party is imploding as we speak. However, I see this as a further positive effect of this historic and unprecendented vote: radical change is coming, and change is necessary, life affirming and good. Hold on to your hats.

Both the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition have both publicly stated that the result of the referendum will be honoured by Parliament.

So there will not be a second referendum no matter how many people sign the petition, I would imagine this will be addressed tomorrow in the Commons.

[cross it Dave]

What has been interesting is the stance taken by Merkel and Hollande so far towards Brexit, it seem's quite conciliatory, as opposed to the unelected Junckers, who wants us out now.

There lies the underlying problem with the unelected EU.

Our Nigel won't be missed by their unelected elite either, he caused them nothing but embarrassment.

[cross it Dave]

I like the majority of the country want a right wing government, it's what we voted for it's called DEMOCRACY

Amen to that Gaz.

[Hubble]

The experts have forgotten one important point. The prime minister (whoever that might be) can no longer call a general election. This is because of the change to fixed term parliaments. From what I understand the only way an election can be called is if there is a vote of no confidence in the government and since they hold the majority, whatever their differences they would not want to run the risk of losing their seats. There is no way at the present time that the labour party would want another election. Also a general election at this time will not help the country in a period when we are negotiating our exit from the EU.

Hopefully once things have settled down, all parties will get together so that we can try to get the best deal for the U.K. outside of the EU. In the next couple of weeks (starting on Monday) we will see how this is going to happen.

I hope so too jm, but there's major resistance to this. Nicola Sturgeon is now saying Scotland can veto brexit: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...633244?SThisFB

[Kevin Mcleod]

This remainions are so mad ain't they. Won't stop crying.

[cross it Dave]

I hope so too jm, but there's major resistance to this. Nicola Sturgeon is now saying Scotland can veto brexit: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...633244?SThisFB

This was discussed on the Andrew Marr show this morning, I think it was stated the message coming from Brussels won't help her cause.

Sorry, I meant Scotland staying in the EU.

How can a party that represents roughly 4% of the British public have these illusions of grandeur

[jmelanie]

This was discussed on the Andrew Marr show this morning, I think it was stated the message coming from Brussels won't help her cause.

Sorry, I meant Scotland staying in the EU.

Apparently Brussels is not keen in allowing Scotland to join the EU. This could lead to a number of separatist regimes (the Basques for example) voting to separate and join the EU. This would cause even more chaos. Nicola Sturgean is trying to justify her position as first minister. In fact if they were to hold a referendum (which I don't think will happen) they could finish up leaving the EU before the rest of the U.K. Before the referendum I thought she was a reasonable individual, but this has shown that her ideas are not feasible.

[dogsrrs]

This was discussed on the Andrew Marr show this morning, I think it was stated the message coming from Brussels won't help her cause.

Sorry, I meant Scotland staying in the EU.

How can a party that represents roughly 4% of the British public have these illusions of grandeur

Yep as I've said Letts have another refa on throwing the self important whining prigs out