Brentford trajectory vs Warbs sacking calls

[topperharley]

A bit of perspective and macro thought for those calling him to be sacked or defending Warbs. Meant to be a discussion rather than opinion that gets agreed or disagreed with.

His last two gigs were Brentford and Glasgow Rangers. While I think we cannot compare apples for apples with Glasgow and our club, very different for lots of reasons, we can with Brentford. A team he managed for two years and a team that is now in the premier league. It is also fair to say to Glasgow are in a better place now, and under his tenure they did improve. Though he did not actually take both of these teams to their full potential he was part of the process and certainly did not take them backwards.

He had a good record at Brentford, over a 50% winning percentage, got them close to the top of the championship and though he wasn't fired as such, it was kind of a mysterious parting of ideas, despite the relative success. Under Dean Smith they took the next steps but arguably MW laid the foundations.

I don't think it's fair to talk about the Forest tenure much, the club was a mess at the time.

Maybe I'm being vague but my point is that though we have struggled results wise recently, and performance wise longer than that, i wonder if the club and MW have reached their max potential, something Brentford must have felt, or if this is a building block before we push on under MW or someone else next year or the year after. What point in the trajectory are we? Did we over achieve too early? Is Warbs a victim of his own success at the end of last year and beginning of this year?

Personally I feel sticking with Mark now is important. We are learning some lessons and though it hurts not keeping up the tempo and pushing for promotion, i strongly feel we are not ready for it anyway, and would be much better off developing the squad this year (something he needs to get on with quick smart) and pushing on next year. Wether it's Mark or not next year depends entirely on how the rest of this season goes. Less so points wise but more so performance wise and having a really good look at how we should play, setup and who is the squad.

[LoftusRoadLad]

I would like to see Warbs with money like a lot of those around us. We have defiantly been punching above our weight. The jigsaw is not complete.
With a few quality additions we could do a "Fulham" or "Boremouth" under our boss.

[Mem]

Excellent post. My gut feel is that Warbs has taken us as far as he can. He has done a good job so far but his track record suggests he lacks the killer instinct to take us to the next level. Difficult to put my finger on it but it’s a mixture of stubbornness, lack of motivation persona and a real winners mentality.

The difficulty though who is there at championship level that possess the full leadership package.

[Darkranger]

A bit of perspective and macro thought for those calling him to be sacked or defending Warbs. Meant to be a discussion rather than opinion that gets agreed or disagreed with.

His last two gigs were Brentford and Glasgow Rangers. While I think we cannot compare apples for apples with Glasgow and our club, very different for lots of reasons, we can with Brentford. A team he managed for two years and a team that is now in the premier league. It is also fair to say to Glasgow are in a better place now, and under his tenure they did improve. Though he did not actually take both of these teams to their full potential he was part of the process and certainly did not take them backwards.

He had a good record at Brentford, over a 50% winning percentage, got them close to the top of the championship and though he wasn't fired as such, it was kind of a mysterious parting of ideas, despite the relative success. Under Dean Smith they took the next steps but arguably MW laid the foundations.

I don't think it's fair to talk about the Forest tenure much, the club was a mess at the time.

Maybe I'm being vague but my point is that though we have struggled results wise recently, and performance wise longer than that, i wonder if the club and MW have reached their max potential, something Brentford must have felt, or if this is a building block before we push on under MW or someone else next year or the year after. What point in the trajectory are we? Did we over achieve too early? Is Warbs a victim of his own success at the end of last year and beginning of this year?

Personally I feel sticking with Mark now is important. We are learning some lessons and though it hurts not keeping up the tempo and pushing for promotion, i strongly feel we are not ready for it anyway, and would be much better off developing the squad this year (something he needs to get on with quick smart) and pushing on next year. Wether it's Mark or not next year depends entirely on how the rest of this season goes. Less so points wise but more so performance wise and having a really good look at how we should play, setup and who is the squad.

Great post.

I think we have certainly over achieved this season, and Mark Warburton is possibly a victim of his own success.

For me though its more about our performances of late. These have at best been below par, and bordering on woeful. If we were playing well and losing, the results would eventually improve, but unfortunately we are not.

As you alluded to and was pointed out on another thread, our use of squad and youth players has been very poor. Why stick with a team that is clearly underperforming week in week out. Our under 23's have good results, are none of those players good enough to even make the bench?

Looking longer term I believe he's still the right man for the job, it's just a shame that we have managed to get into a great league position and the wheels have come off to such an extent that we look like sliding down the table, and missing out on the play offs.

[topperharley]

The difficulty though who is there at championship level that possess the full leadership package.

A championship level manager is like a championship level player, you either know what you're getting and likely the limitations, or you are taking a punt that may well work out or could be a disaster.

[72bus]

Earlier in the season this team didn't know when it was beaten , now.when we go behind we lack fight , ideas and heart . Don't know about Warburton and whether he can get the team battling again

[stanistheman]

Great post.

I think we have certainly over achieved this season, and Mark Warburton is possibly a victim of his own success.

For me though its more about our performances of late. These have at best been below par, and bordering on woeful. If we were playing well and losing, the results would eventually improve, but unfortunately we are not.

As you alluded to and was pointed out on another thread, our use of squad and youth players has been very poor. Why stick with a team that is clearly underperforming week in week out. Our under 23's have good results, are none of those players good enough to even make the bench?

Looking longer term I believe he's still the right man for the job, it's just a shame that we have managed to get into a great league position and the wheels have come off to such an extent that we look like sliding down the table, and missing out on the play offs.

I agree and one of my biggest gripes is the lack of U23s in the side or at least on the bench. On Saturday we had a gk, 3 wingbacks and 3 CMs. No strikers who could have perhaps made a difference when coming on.

He said after the game that the 2nd half performance was unacceptable, but surely by leaving his changes (as pathetic as they were) so late, HE accepted that.
I didn't hear that he took responsibility for his team selection, substitutions or tactics. That's not acceptable to me and other fans. I heard and took part in conversations with fans leaving the stadium and on trains all complaining about his tactics, team selections etc for not only the Cardiff game but others over the last 5 weeks.

The main points were we need to be playing with 2 strikers, one of Chair or Willock, moving the ball forward quicker and with purpose (cut out the CB trio and keeper swapping passes) and giving the U23s a chance where possible (Sat was one of those occasions).

[72bus]

I agree and one of my biggest gripes is the lack of U23s in the side or at least on the bench. On Saturday we had a gk, 3 wingbacks and 3 CMs. No strikers who could have perhaps made a difference when coming on.

He said after the game that the 2nd half performance was unacceptable, but surely by leaving his changes (as pathetic as they were) so late, HE accepted that.
I didn't hear that he took responsibility for his team selection, substitutions or tactics. That's not acceptable to me and other fans. I heard and took part in conversations with fans leaving the stadium and on trains all complaining about his tactics, team selections etc for not only the Cardiff game but others over the last 5 weeks.

The main points were we need to be playing with 2 strikers, one of Chair or Willock, moving the ball forward quicker and with purpose (cut out the CB trio and keeper swapping passes) and giving the U23s a chance where possible (Sat was one of those occasions).

Good last paragraph

[FurtiveFox]

Think we have to accept we are not Man City and any manager we have is going to have plus and minus points. I am frustrated as hell about how we are currently playing but overall a lot has been achieved during MW's tenure so far.

My wider concern is we will likely have to sell some players this summer and if anything Dickie, perhaps Dieng and others have under performed this season and we will not get what we hoped for. Only ones I'd say have excelled and grown over the season are Willock and Dunne. Also, as others have said, nobody seemingly has come through the U23s.