Lack of a creative player in the middle

[Stanley]

I can't see us (and frankly hope we don't think about) dropping Luongo as a long term thing. The guy is absolutely phenomenal on and off the ball. For me, he should be the first name in every starting 11 when fit and energised.

He's good, but not as good as you make out IMO. Quite similar in style to Henry - both strong in the tackle and break up play - but neither are particularly creative offensively. It's fine playing with one DM, but two (like we do now) is overkill and wastes one position in the side. When you play two CM's you need both players interchanging - so when one is offensive the other provides cover, and vice-versa.

[nasser95]

He's good, but not as good as you make out IMO. Quite similar in style to Henry - both strong in the tackle and break up play - but neither are particularly creative offensively. It's fine playing with one DM, but two (like we do now) is overkill and wastes one position in the side. When you play two CM's you need both players interchanging - so when one is offensive the other provides cover, and vice-versa.

That's why I want Henry replaced by Cousins in the middle, brings the best out of both Luongo and Cousins.

[Stanley]

He must have the lowest shooting percentage as can rarely recall him having a shot. Had perfect opportunity to shoot just inside the box yesterday and opted to pass backwards

And his shooting is very poor on the rare occasions he elects to do so - which is another reason why him and Henry aren't the best pairing, as you need at least one CM with a decent shot on him.

[Stanley]

That's why I want Henry replaced by Cousins in the middle, brings the best out of both Luongo and Cousins.

Finally we can agree on something Nas!!

[nasser95]

And his shooting is very poor on the rare occasions he elects to do so - which is another reason why him and Henry aren't the best pairing, as you need at least one CM with a decent shot on him.

I mean, I personally think having 1 player who can shoot is a bonus as opposed to a necessity, since you have 4 players ahead of the pairing who should be better at shooting. But yea, having one with our style of play may be handy, hence Cousins, if only to keep the keeper working and hope for either a crazy goal or more likely at this level, a spill in the box.

[Stanley]

we can see what JFH wants coming together

Not when he persists in playing Cousins and Yeni completely out of position, thereby failing to bring the best out of them. Both very talented players who are currently being held back for no good reason, it appears.

[stanistheman]

People are getting him mixed up... he's a deep lying creative midfielder, not an attacking midfielder. People who think we have better defensively really need to pay attention to his play because his tackling quality is really phenomenal considering his limited reach due to his height, alongside his aerial prowess which is great too. Offensively, no one got more open play assists last season than him and he didn't take set pieces. We're nitpicking by saying he doesn't score because there are 4 players playing in front of him who should do that instead. He just needs to supply them. He doesn't like shooting because he's not good at it, but that's not the sort of player he is. He's the player who moves the ball from just before the centre circle to just outside the box. There, we'll have 4 players who can shoot and who should be doing it.

As for how he'll get more freedom with someone other than KH, the reason is simply pace. KH doesn't have it so Luongo tends to hang back and cover for him, meaning he releases the ball early as opposed to getting further forward because if anything happens, he knows KH can only do so much in terms of covering for him. With Cousins or Borysuik, he's got two players who can stay back when he goes forward and cover the entire centre of the park, as opposed to one side of it.

I agree that Luongo is a good midfielder and you make a very valid point about Henry.
This is one of the reasons JFH is so frustrating to some of is.
He tried this pairing last season and it failed, yet he is persisiting with it now. Can't he recognise this?
If Ariel is not fit, then perhaps he should select Cousins to partner Luongo.

Not when he persists in playing Cousins and Yeni completely out of position, thereby failing to bring the best out of them. Both very talented players who are currently being held back for no good reason, it appears.

Yes, I too can't see what JHH is trying to do when he persists with playing Cousins Yeni and others out of position.

[nasser95]

I agree that Luongo is a good midfielder and you make a very valid point about Henry.
This is one of the reasons JFH is so frustrating to some of is.
He tried this pairing last season and it failed, yet he is persisiting with it now. Can't he recognise this?
If Ariel is not fit, then perhaps he should select Cousins to partner Luongo.



Yes, I too can't see what JHH is trying to do when he persists with playing Cousins Yeni and others out of position.

I think Ned explained the idea behind yeni and cousins but I didn't really agree with it, it was about how Gladwin is the actual guy we want out wide but he's injured. Why not just play Shodipo? He looks good and direct, and playing him there means instead of having one winger play out wide when gladwin gets back, we'd have two.

[Mattyqpr]

People are getting him mixed up... he's a deep lying creative midfielder, not an attacking midfielder. People who think we have better defensively really need to pay attention to his play because his tackling quality is really phenomenal considering his limited reach due to his height, alongside his aerial prowess which is great too. Offensively, no one got more open play assists last season than him and he didn't take set pieces. We're nitpicking by saying he doesn't score because there are 4 players playing in front of him who should do that instead. He just needs to supply them. He doesn't like shooting because he's not good at it, but that's not the sort of player he is. He's the player who moves the ball from just before the centre circle to just outside the box. There, we'll have 4 players who can shoot and who should be doing it.

As for how he'll get more freedom with someone other than KH, the reason is simply pace. KH doesn't have it so Luongo tends to hang back and cover for him, meaning he releases the ball early as opposed to getting further forward because if anything happens, he knows KH can only do so much in terms of covering for him. With Cousins or Borysuik, he's got two players who can stay back when he goes forward and cover the entire centre of the park, as opposed to one side of it.

How is he creative? No matter what spin on his position you put on it, those stats are #### poor for a creative player. Nevermind about last season, we were dreadful and he was the best of a bad bunch and he definitely wasn't deep lying under CR.

As for defensively he's solid but imo we can do better. I like him as he brings a good energy to the side but for me he's a squad player rather than starter.

None of us will agree with eachother but I'm happy to have posts like this as it shows we've got good competition in a vital area of the pitch.

[West Acton]

We have people debating that we don't score from open play but perhaps if our CM actually tried having a pop at goal when opportunity presents itself that could change. Perfect example was first half yesterday ball drops to mass just inside their box anyone else would put foot through it and have ago but he played ball backwards

Take the shot work the keeper he might parry it and we get the rebound or like yesterday when there are bodies in box it could deflect in; refusing to shoot every time is actually robbing the team of opportunities

[nasser95]

How is he creative? No matter what spin on his position you put on it, those stats are #### poor for a creative player. Nevermind about last season, we were dreadful and he was the best of a bad bunch and he definitely wasn't deep lying under CR.

As for defensively he's solid but imo we can do better. I like him as he brings a good energy to the side but for me he's a squad player rather than starter.

None of us will agree with eachother but I'm happy to have posts like this as it shows we've got good competition in a vital area of the pitch.

I'm not considering him under CR, I'm considering him under JFH and he was creative from a deep position. I'll wait till the end of the season for the expected poty thread where his name will be very seriously debated I'm sure.

[Stanley]

We have people debating that we don't score from open play but perhaps if our CM actually tried having a pop at goal when opportunity presents itself that could change. Perfect example was first half yesterday ball drops to mass just inside their box anyone else would put foot through it and have ago but he played ball backwards

Take the shot work the keeper he might parry it and we get the rebound or like yesterday when there are bodies in box it could deflect in; refusing to shoot every time is actually robbing the team of opportunities

Yes, as has been discussed, you need at least one of your CM's capable of shooting accurately and regularly - another reason why Cousins should be in there. You'd also having Yeni taking more shots if he was on the right.

[West Acton]

Ravel has been told he can leave get him in!!!!

[1973 ranger]

Now there is a creative player West's! He is the player that we should build a team around. Glides across the pitch and very very good from 25 yards in with a shot or a pass.

[stanistheman]

I think Ned explained the idea behind yeni and cousins but I didn't really agree with it, it was about how Gladwin is the actual guy we want out wide but he's injured. Why not just play Shodipo? He looks good and direct, and playing him there means instead of having one winger play out wide when gladwin gets back, we'd have two.

Agree about Shodipo.
He is a left winger and imo a better one than Gladwin.