Hall or Jagielka?

[Ramsey is god]

anyone suggesting Hall is currently better than Jagielka needs there head testing.

[nasser95]

Fun fact, Jagielka had to make more defensive actions in 2015 than any defender in Europe. I think he's shown he's still very capable and one or two bad games IMO shouldn't change that.

[OneJamieMackie]

Fun fact, Jagielka had to make more defensive actions in 2015 than any defender in Europe. I think he's shown he's still very capable and one or two bad games IMO shouldn't change that.

Interesting, thanks for posting

[Ramsey is god]

Fun fact, Jagielka had to make more defensive actions in 2015 than any defender in Europe. I think he's shown he's still very capable and one or two bad games IMO shouldn't change that.

does that not just mean he is caught out of position alot?

[nasser95]

does that not just mean he is caught out of position alot?

Not at all, defensive actions are tackles, interceptions, blocks, etc. Getting involved in these shows that he's covering for the rest of the defence a lot, but not at all out of position. He's a centre back at the end of the day.

[Ramsey is god]

Not at all, defensive actions are tackles, interceptions, blocks, etc. Getting involved in these shows that he's covering for the rest of the defence a lot, but not at all out of position. He's a centre back at the end of the day.

As is Caulker supposedly, but never seen anyone caught out of position as much as him

[nasser95]

As is Caulker supposedly, but never seen anyone caught out of position as much as him

I don't really see what you're getting at mate... never compared them, haven't said here that Caulker does much... Just saying the fact is that Jagielka does more defensively than any defender in Europe (or did in 2015)

[Ramsey is god]

I don't really see what you're getting at mate... never compared them, haven't said here that Caulker does much... Just saying the fact is that Jagielka does more defensively than any defender in Europe (or did in 2015)

thought your point of "hes a centre back at the end of the day" was in reference to me saying does he get caught out positionally.

I like your stats and think you can hold some weight to them, but for me when judging a centre back, i think the less they appear to do, the better the defender.

Example - defender who blocks a shot gets a point on your stats, then the defender that is so tight to his man that the guy cant turn and shoot so has to pass it on gets no point as it would appear he hasnt actually done anything.

[nasser95]

thought your point of "hes a centre back at the end of the day" was in reference to me saying does he get caught out positionally.

I like your stats and think you can hold some weight to them, but for me when judging a centre back, i think the less they appear to do, the better the defender.

Example - defender who blocks a shot gets a point on your stats, then the defender that is so tight to his man that the guy cant turn and shoot so has to pass it on gets no point as it would appear he hasnt actually done anything.

That isn't really a fair statement given that a lot of teams don't play a high line with closing down. As a defence, you play different styles of play and a lot of teams like players to run onto them so they can make a challenge and win it back. If you're closing down and forcing a pass, to some managers, you're seen as keeping the opposition on the ball, something you don't want to do, so a lot of the times, defenders won't do what you've suggested they should.

In fact most defenders don't. One of the greatest of them all, Paolo Maldini when played as a centre back was renowned for not making many tackles per game, instead he intercepted everything. The amount of interceptions he made was incredible, but by your logic, him getting involved that much would suggest he isn't as good.

To me, a defender has to be able to do everything to win the ball back. Closing down an opposition player doesn't win you the ball, it forces you out of position. How many times have we seen a defender close down Messi, Iniesta etc and force a pass out of them only to then be exposed because he's left a gap in his defence and another player has run in to take advantage of that.

[Ramsey is god]

That isn't really a fair statement given that a lot of teams don't play a high line with closing down. As a defence, you play different styles of play and a lot of teams like players to run onto them so they can make a challenge and win it back. If you're closing down and forcing a pass, to some managers, you're seen as keeping the opposition on the ball, something you don't want to do, so a lot of the times, defenders won't do what you've suggested they should.

In fact most defenders don't. One of the greatest of them all, Paolo Maldini when played as a centre back was renowned for not making many tackles per game, instead he intercepted everything. The amount of interceptions he made was incredible, but by your logic, him getting involved that much would suggest he isn't as good.

To me, a defender has to be able to do everything to win the ball back. Closing down an opposition player doesn't win you the ball, it forces you out of position. How many times have we seen a defender close down Messi, Iniesta etc and force a pass out of them only to then be exposed because he's left a gap in his defence and another player has run in to take advantage of that.

so closing people down is bad?

didnt ever mention tackles or interceptions, that would indeed count towards doing something. More that when a a centre back is forced to block, its ultimately because someone hasnt done their job right by stopping the attacker shooting.

sense im onto a loser with this one as i couldn't disagree with your comments above any more.

[nasser95]

so closing people down is bad?

didnt ever mention tackles or interceptions, that would indeed count towards doing something. More that when a a centre back is forced to block, its ultimately because someone hasnt done their job right by stopping the attacker shooting.

sense im onto a loser with this one as i couldn't disagree with your comments above any more.

Closing down isn't bad, but it is not fair to suggest that it makes a defender better if he closes everything down than if he reads every shot and blocks it.

[Ramsey is god]

Closing down isn't bad, but it is not fair to suggest that it makes a defender better if he closes everything down than if he reads every shot and blocks it.

not the point i am making at all.

[sneezey15]

Hall long way to go but got potential silly to compare to Jags.

[Kevin Mcleod]

I'm going to pick Jagileka after tonight I think lol

[West Acton]

It was never even a debate