viagogo

[Hubble]

I'd be interested to know what arguments you consider to be "strawman". Or are you disputing that if you sell a ticket at above face value you are a ticket tout? Because if you are not disputing that fact, then viagogo are ticket touts by definition.

The fees charged by viagogo are not reasonable, they are a gouge - 25% of the ticket price (last time I looked, 10% from seller and 15% from buyer, or vice versa, I can't remember which) plus a hefty fixed commission! Don't you think there should be a cheaper way for real fans to buy tickets from one another?

It is great that you have been able to purchase SOME tickets at below face value but that is of course irrelevant to determining whether viagogo are ticket touts. Even touts have to sell at a loss sometimes. If you could tell me that ALL tickets they sell are at or below face value, that would be different. Wait until we get promoted and the human ticket touts buy up a bunch of season tickets to sell to you via the electronic ticket touts and see what the prices look like then!

They are not touts by definition - they are resellers. What's the difference? A tout buys a ticket and then flogs it for as much as he/she can get; with viagogo - in my experience - the original seller sets the price and viagogo charge a handling fee. Is that so hard to understand? I've got no vested interest in promoting them, but do try and get your arguments straight.

Yes, in an ideal world there would be a better, cheaper way for fans to re-sell their tickets, but it's not that terrible FFS! How you and Johnny tight ar se can dispute the simple fact that through this awful rip-off system I have been able to see Rangers for a lot less than if I'd bought through the club is beyond me. And it's not luck, it's just a simple reality. Trust me, I'm the last person who would willingly support any form of corporatization or the basic monopolies that capitalism so easily engenders, but, as a system, right now, it works well enough and provides a much better way of allowing tickets to be used by fans who would otherwise not get to the match - for a very reasonable price - than ever existed before. The strawman accusation is that there is - ipso facto - something wrong with viagogo for simply providing this service. Do you expect them to do it for nothing?

[brightonr]

Could be wrong here, but on the basis that tickets are "non-transferable", surely the only strictly permissable method of purchase would be directly from the club or from someone with the agreement of the club.

Irrespective of who makes what, Viagogo are an official "Partner" of the club, indeed the only official place to sell your seat, so calling them touts, is not exactly correct, is it?

[dsqpr]

Could be wrong here, but on the basis that tickets are "non-transferable", surely the only strictly permissable method of purchase would be directly from the club or from someone with the agreement of the club.

Irrespective of who makes what, Viagogo are an official "Partner" of the club, indeed the only official place to sell your seat, so calling them touts, is not exactly correct, is it?

I have two problems with them Brightonr:
1. They sell tickets at above face value, and I can't see how being an official partner with the club changes the fact that they are therefore ticket touts. Maybe you and I have a different definition of "tout". You can see mine above. What is yours?
2. Their fees are a gouge and the only reason they can get away with it is because they have been granted a monopoly. They take advantage of the fact that football fans are dedicated customers. Monopolies create this situation (gouging) which is why democratic governments have laws to prevent or control them. I would like to see the government intervene to remove their monopoly, which would have a very positive effect on the fees fans are charged for selling tickets to one another.

Edit: Just for fun I looked up the definition of "ticket tout" and found this:
Noun 1. ticket tout - someone who buys tickets to an event in order to resell them at a profitticket tout - someone who buys tickets to an event in order to resell them at a profit

According to that definition, viagogo don't even have to sell the tickets at above face value! Their whole business model is based on ticket touting! I will concede that they provide a valuable service and I certainly agree that it is fine to charge a REASONABLE fee for providing a service. They could sell the tickets at face value or less and tack on a REASONABLE fee that would be their compensation. But then they would not be able to gouge the fans and create obscene profits.

As for Hubble: your arguments have descended into nonsense! You seem to think that because you have been able to buy tickets from viagogo for less than face value and like the service, that magically means they are not ticket touts just because YOU have never had to pay above face value. Absolute nonsense! And you seem to think the fact that they don't set the price means that they aren't touts, even though they are the ones who sell you the ticket at above face value. Again, absolute nonsense! As I said above, I'll wait until we are in the Premier League and see how much you like the service then.

[davidla80]

Edit: Just for fun I looked up the definition of "ticket tout" and found this:
Noun 1. ticket tout - someone who buys tickets to an event in order to resell them at a profitticket tout - someone who buys tickets to an event in order to resell them at a profit.

But Viagogo don't buy tickets, do they?

[brightonr]

I have two problems with them Brightonr:
1. They sell tickets at above face value, and I can't see how being an official partner with the club changes the fact that they are therefore ticket touts. Maybe you and I have a different definition of "tout". You can see mine above. What is yours?
2. Their fees are a gouge and the only reason they can get away with it is because they have been granted a monopoly. They take advantage of the fact that football fans are dedicated customers. Monopolies create this situation (gouging) which is why democratic governments have laws to prevent or control them. I would like to see the government intervene to remove their monopoly, which would have a very positive effect on the fees fans are charged for selling tickets to one another.

Edit: Just for fun I looked up the definition of "ticket tout" and found this:
Noun 1. ticket tout - someone who buys tickets to an event in order to resell them at a profitticket tout - someone who buys tickets to an event in order to resell them at a profit

According to that definition, viagogo don't even have to sell the tickets at above face value! Their whole business model is based on ticket touting! I will concede that they provide a valuable service and I certainly agree that it is fine to charge a REASONABLE fee for providing a service. They could sell the tickets at face value or less and tack on a REASONABLE fee that would be their compensation. But then they would not be able to gouge the fans and create obscene profits.

As for Hubble: your arguments have descended into nonsense! You seem to think that because you have been able to buy tickets from viagogo for less than face value and like the service, that magically means they are not ticket touts just because YOU have never had to pay above face value. Absolute nonsense! And you seem to think the fact that they don't set the price means that they aren't touts, even though they are the ones who sell you the ticket at above face value. Again, absolute nonsense! As I said above, I'll wait until we are in the Premier League and see how much you like the service then.

They are a ticket exchange service. No more, no less. They do not set the prices, just take a cut.

It would appear that this season, whilst the demand for tickets is less, some good deals are to be had. If we go up and the demand is much higher, then I would suspect that the opposite would be the case. Not really their fault or caused by their policies, other than the very basic principle that people shouldn't be allowed to profit from selling a ticket.

[Hubble]

But Viagogo don't buy tickets, do they?

I think he's incapable of grasping that basic fact.

[MyWord]

I think he's incapable of grasping that basic fact.

It certainly appears that way.

[ArthurQPR_NYC]

To the original poster, yes I have used Viagogo for Loftus Road tickets. It worked like a charm. I even chose to pick them up on the day, and they had a dedicated window along the other will call windows on South Africa Rd (most likely bc they are the official partner of the club).

To the other blokes on this thread having a go at one another, I just want to say that I am taking neither "side" on this one. I just know that I bought tickets for multiple games on there this season, and that the viagogo price was well below the price on the official QPR ticket portal. And I always checked first.. because if the viagogo were more expensive or the same price, I'd rather buy it from the club. Above all, I chose the cheaper priced tickets (for the same seats) on Viagogo to support my own personal economy.

Also, yes I think there will be cases where demand is high for a Coldplay concert. And yes, with those margins (not to mention the crazed fans) there will be degenerates who pretend to be "fans" and ruin the system. But so far, that has not been the case with Loftus Road tickets. In fact at the prices I see, it looks like there are decent qpr fans who are looking to get 'something' for tickets to fixtures they won't be able to go to... rather than nothing.

[dsqpr]

Here is what the FSF have to say on this topic:

The FSF opposes “legalised touts” who are more concerned with making money than getting tickets into fans’ hands at a reasonable price, so it’s great to see one of our affiliates launching a campaign on this issue. Find out more about Tottenham Hotspur Supporters’ Trust's “Stop StubHub” campaign below…

Having received headline data on StubHub sales for the first six Premier League home games of this season, it is clear that the StubHub resale platform is pushing up the price of tickets to watch Tottenham Hotspur.

The evidence provided shows that 91% of tickets are being sold above face value. At the two category A games included in the data, Chelsea and West Ham United, tickets were sold at an average price of 135% and 53% above face value respectively.

http://www.fsf.org.uk/blog/view/tottenham-hotspur-supporters-trust-launches-stop-stubhub-campaign

This piece is about StubHub rather than viagogo, but, as the saying goes, same sh1t, different pile.

[dsqpr]

I also found this:

A ticket tout is someone who resells tickets for admission to events at more than their face value.

http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/consumer/other_consumer_law_topics/500485.html

Seems to finally resolve the question of whether viagogo is a ticket tout! Nobody seems to be disputing that they resell tickets for more than face value!

I'd always thought this was illegal in the UK and even after reading this page I'm still not sure.

[QprSinceBirth]

I went to Chelsea at home and people had the tickets up at £130+ , I was lucky enough to know someone who had a spare. Tickets are normally more expensive for the ridiculous charges they charge the seller and the buyer.

[W12_Ranger]

Shame viagogo take such a big cut but I reckon I could potentially clear up the cost of my ST with half dozen fixtures then watch the remaining winnable games for free for the remainder of the season.

[QprSinceBirth]

Shame viagogo take such a big cut but I reckon I could potentially clear up the cost of my ST with half dozen fixtures then watch the remaining winnable games for free for the remainder of the season.

Yep , IMO it's just a way for ticket touts to sell legally. Especially in the prem they can buy a ticket and sell it for double with no hassle.