Originally posted by Itsonlyagame
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Europe. In or out?
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Originally posted by jmelanie View PostEverybody keeps saying we can use our veto. This is possibly on some occasions. However this rarely happens. If Britain does use their veto then they usually change whatever agreement is being discussed so the veto is no longer relevant. I think Britain has only used the veto on a handful of times.
This is not scaremongering. If we vote to stay in the EU things will continue to change and as far as I know we (the population) will have little say in these changes. For example if the government of the day decides for whatever reason to further enlarge the EU, then we will have no say in this decision. The present ambition of the EU is a federal Europe (I don't believe this has changed). In order for this to happen a common currency for all members will be necessary. I do not recall us ever saying we would not join the Euro. I believe the reason for not joining was because Gordon Brown said that we did not fulfill the necessary requirements. When we did not join we were told our economy would suffer, banks would leave the U.K. (in fact more banks came to the capital), and it would in general a bad thing for the U.K. Sound familiar?
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Originally posted by jmelanie View PostSeveral train and tube strikes for a start.
This is just another bit of ill informed anti union propaganda , i can say that quite confidently ,because ive worked on the Railway for many years ,and i havn`t even known of a Drivers strike on my region since the late 90s.Rangers,Scooters ,Tunes and Trainers
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It's a great debate, but ultimately there is no right or wrong way over this referendum. Each one of us has our own truth unique to our circumstances and individualism; and that will always rise above any of the individual debates. On an issue as far-reaching as this, after we've listened to the arguments, I would ultimately vote with how my gut instinct and intuition guides me, over and above the intellect. You can be hit with rational arguments until your blue in the face, but if something just doesn't feel right about it then that's what I always trust in the end because it usually turns out to be the right decision, at least on a personal level, if not for the greater good.
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Originally posted by Stanley View PostIt's a great debate, but ultimately there is no right or wrong way over this referendum. Each one of us has our own truth unique to our circumstances and individualism; and that will always rise above any of the individual debates. On an issue as far-reaching as this, after we've listened to the arguments, I would ultimately vote with how my gut instinct and intuition guides me, over and above the intellect. You can be hit with rational arguments until your blue in the face, but if something just doesn't feel right about it then that's what I always trust in the end because it usually turns out to be the right decision, at least on a personal level, if not for the greater good.Rangers,Scooters ,Tunes and Trainers
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Originally posted by stainrodisalegend View PostEnlargement of Europe would require unanimous agreement of all 27 members.
Even countries which need the consent of the population finally agree (like Ireland) because if the population votes against it the first time, they get to vote again until they finally agree. This has happened several times.Last edited by jmelanie; 03-06-2016, 09:25 AM.
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Originally posted by vespa View PostWhen were these " several train " strikes that only had 30% of members voting for a strike ,that held the whole country to ransom ?
This is just another bit of ill informed anti union propaganda , i can say that quite confidently ,because ive worked on the Railway for many years ,and i havn`t even known of a Drivers strike on my region since the late 90s.
You are probably right about the train strikes because since they were denationalized there have not been very many strikes.
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Originally posted by nanocopic View PostMe, I haven't a clue still. There is clearly not going to be a world war if we vote out but I also don't think we are going to suddenly be calling sausages meat tubes because we vote in. My main concern is human rights if we vote out and my concern for staying is, what use has it been so far. I mean are we actually gaining anything long term from the EU that we couldn't do anyway without being in this trade agreement. Both campaigns a just twisted truths and some just plain lies. Both sides.arguments are really exaggerated and pathetic. I kinda expected better considering we have known this referendum was announced a while back. I am also not sure if Cameron is bluffing as really it would be in some of the Tories interest (especially people such as Stephen Trapp) to not be in the EU. He would love to be able to take away disabled people's benefits even more without Brussels laws looming over him.
I can't argue with the fact migration has got stupid. And these open borders taht allow other EU residents to live here whether they have needed valuable skills or not is a bit dim. Of course we should help refugees, but they are separate from.regular migration.
As a disabled guy with learning difficulties, I struggled my way thru multiple computer science courses and I can't help but feel my ability to get a job in the workplace has suffered greatly due to migration. Many more professionals can do what I do for longer and with more professionalism. (Sadly something I can't control either of.) So rather than companies being willing to take on disabled people due to the need for a workforce, these jobs are filled. I feel under this current situation my employment chances get worse and worse and that is certainly something I wish would change.
As I said the U.K. is making efforts. It is now possible to take most buses in London with a wheelchair. There is a system called Dial a Ride which picks you up from your home and takes you to local places as examples.
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Originally posted by Hubble View PostBelieve it or not, I'm still not 100% decided - I'm still waiting for someone to persuade me to vote out. I think it's reassurances I'd need and unfortunately the major players in the Brexit campaign concern me too much to vote that way. I think it's a shame a cogent case hasn't been put forward by the left wing. I've put my remain arguments up to see how people respond. No one has convinced me those arguments are wrong yet, but people have certainly made me think hard about it.
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Remain or Leave are both future unknowns. If we stay, we'll end up being a tiny part of something we may not like, no say and no borders, the Europe Superstate. We will no longer exist as British or French etc, (except in history books) we'll all be Europeans from Europe. Cameron proved recently how much say we have on reform. If we leave we'll know exactly where we're going in the future, once we've sorted out the temporary teething problems.
All the Remain predictions are laughable, no matter how many 'experts' and 'authorities' they find.
A prediction is not evidence, never will be, and it is not fact either, it will not stand up in a court of law.
Listen to how the 'Remains' weave the word 'fact' and 'evidence' into all these opinions, weasel words and lies. Masters of Spin, Liars of the Universe.Last edited by Olly; 03-06-2016, 03:27 PM.
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Originally posted by jmelanie View PostThere are many examples of public sector strikes. One which springs to mind is a London transport bus strike which took place in January 2015 where only 16% of the union members voted to strike.
You are probably right about the train strikes because since they were denationalized there have not been very many strikes.
Every member gets the right to vote ,so people who dont bother ,should not be taken as a vote against ( or for ) industrial action . The governments new rules are blatantly unfair , votes should only be counted for members who bother to vote ,just like in our own parliamentary system .Rangers,Scooters ,Tunes and Trainers
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Originally posted by jmelanie View PostDavid Owen is part of the Brexit campaign and he seems more reasonable than the major players. Also he originally was in favour of the EU but has since changed his mind. He has made a number of speeches but they have not been greatly publicized by the press because they are not sensational enough. For example he wrote an article in the Guardian regarding the NHS and TTIP http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...ays-david-owen
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