We have to be brave

[SpankwiR]

I know none of us likes Alan Shearer and, generally he talks a load of garbage. But did anyone else like his analysis on the weekend when he did the Adel watch thing from the Man U game. It highlighted where Adel is going wrong at the moment, as he is supposed to be the attacking threat but is too deep and not inclined to make any positive/forward runs without the ball. He then contrasted it with Remy and Bothroyd playing together and it was clear to see that it provided slightly more attacking emphasis. We even had more than one player in the box on several occasions on Saturday, including of course, when Jay scored.

Is there not a possibilty Harry told him to play deeper and go looking for the ball given who we where playing?

[Bluehoop]

Is there not a possibilty Harry told him to play deeper and go looking for the ball given who we where playing?

I could buy that as an excuse generally. But the piece Shearer did was all about when Adel didn't have the ball in United's half and rather than making progressive runs to give the man on the ball a decent option, every time he elected to sit back, congest the midfield and essentially close attacking avenues. The net effect of his positional play on the day is very well summed up by Del in his post earlier in the thread. The suggestion of Adel coming on and making an impact like he did against West Ham is looking like a good one at the moment.Harry's team selection on Saturday was heavily criticised before kick off but it got us a result - it was brave and done with an in mind. Let's just hope Harry has similar plans for the upcoming crunch games.

[hal9thou]

mackie? not sure he deserves to start in the reserves at the moment. worst player on the pitch v utd by a distance. no one mentions that tho.

fair enough Andros then, what I'm wittering on about is playing the ball into space behind and making them turn, we can use Mackie for that...... its the only tactic which will give a return based on the players we have, ie 3 up top.

We have to park the bus up front this time. Regarding Adel, give him the last 25 minutes if we struggle on the day. Great player to have against a tired Defence.

yeah more or less but 3 up means hard work when the ball is lost, can't forget about that bit

shearer

missing the point. He's consistently been played out of position in a poor team. Warnock freed him in a more organised set up and he got us up imo. Everyone in the EPL knew that he'd be used a the out route from the back and made life difficult for him. No surprise.

Like I keep saying and I'll shut up after this, he's a 9 and Chelsea away confirmed that suspicion. I'd like to see him played there again but getting some support from wide and not having to play as a hold up. Hence MACKIE/ANDROS ADEL REMY = front 3.

This should have been tried sooner..... he'll end up there anyway because it's desperate now, draws wont help.

[QPR71]

.....and change last weeks winning team. Play Taarabt on the wing, Remy as CF and Bothroyd on the bench. If Zamora`s fit for 45 minutes, use him, if needed, as a impact sub. Would also love to have Fabio at RB instead of Bos but that won`t happen.

We`re still 4 points behind and have to win against Sunderland - a draw is not enough. Give it a chance. That means playing our most creative players from start.

im never sure its just a case of playing the most creative players, do you not have to weigh up the opposition strengths and play the players and shape to suit.
for instance against spurs we push them into the middle to avoid the wings where they are dangerous (mackie did a job on bale). with citeh we pushed them to the wings cos their centre
is short in stature for crosses and has deadly skill. with chelsea, hard work so they get no time on the ball and with southampton harry knew they would press so he wanted a target man
and couldnt afford for Tarbs to get caught in possesion lying deep

[hh9]

This is what HR said after last match was the key for the victory.
"I picked 11 players to work hard and when you work hard you get your rewards.
For me this means he will pick the same team again unless there is an injury.

[zeberdee]

.....and change last weeks winning team. Play Taarabt on the wing, Remy as CF and Bothroyd on the bench. If Zamora`s fit for 45 minutes, use him, if needed, as a impact sub. Would also love to have Fabio at RB instead of Bos but that won`t happen.

We`re still 4 points behind and have to win against Sunderland - a draw is not enough. Give it a chance. That means playing our most creative players from start.

1) It was a brave decision to to bench Adel and start play Bothroyd and it worked. Not that being brave is any great attribute (if you win you are brave if you lost an idiot) but the brave decision as I see it would be to do the same again.
2) Much more important - you are talking about changing the system. Take out the lead striker and you are just back where we were.
3) Need a very good reason to change a winning team and a winning system. Adel's form is not a good reason imo. Granero's might be but we aint at training so who knows.

[zeberdee]

We need someone to hold the ball up when we need to go long. If we can't play our way out we need to get the game being played in their half or better still their final 3rd. Bothroyd or Zamora must therefore play. I would stick with the team that beat Saints but would play Townsend instead of Park and Fabio instead of Boswinga.

Could see Fabio for Bos, but Park and Townsend do completely different jobs so swapping them would be changing the system.
I think Jenas for Granero might be on though. Unless you play him as a deep lying playmaker which Adel probably does better anyway cos he would get stuck in too.
Basically any big changes to the system or the line up will surprise me a lot because the hold up system worked.

[72bus]

we were very lucky to come away with a win saturday , i was at the game and no one could have really complained if it had finished a draw. i would play remy up front with hoilett , granero isn't doing it for me plenty of twists and turns but not much else , he doesn't seem to want to drive forward. adel doesn't track back enough without the ball so i'd give townshend a run out . can u play m'bia and diakite in the same team i dont know , i fear for us when diakite is on a yellow as u just know he's going to be sent off

[swede]

1) It was a brave decision to to bench Adel and start play Bothroyd and it worked. Not that being brave is any great attribute (if you win you are brave if you lost an idiot) but the brave decision as I see it would be to do the same again.
2) Much more important - you are talking about changing the system. Take out the lead striker and you are just back where we were.
3) Need a very good reason to change a winning team and a winning system. Adel's form is not a good reason imo. Granero's might be but we aint at training so who knows.

1. It was a brave decision to bench Adel against Soton and brave is often not a good attribute - I agree - instead you have to be smart and use the players best suited for the task ahead. Against Sunderland at home I believe playing Remy as the CF is the right choice. He has everything that Bothroyd has but he is faster and sharper. Then we can use Hoilett and Taarabt as wingers and still have 3 CMF.

2. See above. This won`t change the system. Changing that would be stupid. We need 3 CMF.

3. The situation, the need to win and, hopefully, a hungry Taarabt is good reasons to change last weeks team.

[Gtleighsr3]

im mummys little soilder and well brave.

[Geng]

1) We didn't play 'two up top' on Saturday. We played a pretty standard 433/451. Mbia sat in front of the defence, Granero/Jenas and Park pressed forward ahead of him and one was encouraged to get into the box whilst the other sat with Mbia. Bothroyd as a standard lone forward, with Hoilett providing a creative option on one side and Remy a direct one on the other.

No different to how we set up against Chelsea really, where Adel played a standard no.9 role (he wasn't really a 'false 9' as that term only really applies to teams playing higher up the pitch where the 9's movement creates space, eg Messi opening up space for Villa/Pedro. Hardly anyone got beyond Adel as we were sat so deep).

2) No one seems to be paying any attention to the difference between Southampton and Sunderland. Southampton play 4231, press very high up the pitch, and leave lots of space behind their defence. Sunderland will sit much deeper, but are likely to play two proper forwards.

3) Sunderland set up in a very similar way to Fulham. They're likely to have two central midfielders, and a decent gap between them and the two forwards. Why would we want to drop a centre mid and play into their hands? Strikes me as exactly the sort of game Adel thrives on...

[Geng]

My team:

[back 5]
--------Mbia Granero/Park/Jenas
Remy-----Adel--------Hoilett
----------Bothroyd

I could imagine Adel getting lots of space here in between Sunderland's midfield and defence, and he will drop back and get a lot more involved in the midfield battle than Graham/Fletcher will at the other end. Remy to play very high up the pitch, looking to break beyond the left back / left CB, with Hoilett tucking in more.

Essentially, the same side as versus Southampton, but reversing the midfield from 1-2 to 2-1 and bringing in Adel to exploit the space we're likely to have in that zone. With Remy, Hoilett and Bothroyd making runs ahead of him, I'd like to think he'll have a less frustrating night than in those matches earlier in the season when Adel would look up and find Mackie, SWP and Cisse marking the defenders.

If he's fit, Zamora might get ahead of Bothroyd, but I thought Jay played pretty well against Southampton .

[hal9thou]

----------Bothroyd

agree Sunderland will be deeper, apart from anything else everyone will be deeper this weekend after White Heart Lane ;) .... that was like an object lesson in the dangers of a high line.

Up front is tricky if like me you don't really have confidence in either Zamora or Betty in any formation. Preference for the latter if no other choice.

It's interesting because the Adel 9 thing is a strong contender against teams who player higher.

[CroydonCaptainJack]

1) We didn't play 'two up top' on Saturday. We played a pretty standard 433/451. Mbia sat in front of the defence, Granero/Jenas and Park pressed forward ahead of him and one was encouraged to get into the box whilst the other sat with Mbia. Bothroyd as a standard lone forward, with Hoilett providing a creative option on one side and Remy a direct one on the other.

No different to how we set up against Chelsea really, where Adel played a standard no.9 role (he wasn't really a 'false 9' as that term only really applies to teams playing higher up the pitch where the 9's movement creates space, eg Messi opening up space for Villa/Pedro. Hardly anyone got beyond Adel as we were sat so deep).

2) No one seems to be paying any attention to the difference between Southampton and Sunderland. Southampton play 4231, press very high up the pitch, and leave lots of space behind their defence. Sunderland will sit much deeper, but are likely to play two proper forwards.

3) Sunderland set up in a very similar way to Fulham. They're likely to have two central midfielders, and a decent gap between them and the two forwards. Why would we want to drop a centre mid and play into their hands? Strikes me as exactly the sort of game Adel thrives on...

Point 3 is very well made. I would be surprised to see AT on the bench on Saturday

[Geng]

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/sunderland-afc/safc-news/sessegnon-sunderland-s-new-look-will-end-famine-1-5454158

From the Sunderland local paper:

Boss Martin O’Neill attempted to boost Sunderland’s threat at The Hawthorns by partnering January signing Danny Graham alongside Steven Fletcher, as the Wearsiders reverted to an orthodox 4-4-2 formation.

And Sessegnon, moved to a wide role to accommodate £5million Graham in the starting line-up against Steve Clarke’s side, was encouraged by the early signs from the front pair.

The Benin international told the Echo: “It’s a new system which the manager has decided to put in place, and I think there was enough to suggest that it can work for us over the next few games.

The effect of this, in addition to giving us more space between the lines for Adel to operate in, is that 'the Mbia/Derry role' in front of the defence is essentially redundant. Who would Mbia be picking up? Sunderland will look to attack down the flanks, and I would be surprised to see many balls played through the centre along the ground to their forwards.

Of course, we would need our two to compete against Sunderland's two, something we have failed at almost all season (Fulham and the odd Granero/Faurlin game in September aside).