Taarabt - still the best

[Del]

Based on ;ast seasons performances, who has a better claim for a start.... Adel or Cisse.
Would have to be Cisse for me.

For the Adel brigade, just remember we have a lot of quality players on the bench chomping at the bit to start, not just him. Also when the players in the positions he could play are playing well, its hard to argue he should force one of them out.

Also bear in mind the last 3 games were always going to be about intense workrate and quality as against 3 of the top 4 teams last season ffs.... Adel offers only one of those atributes.

[silvercue]

That's the problem with English football, it's all about passion and 11 grafters. I would rather have 1 or 2 mavericks in my team, who might be lazy, but who have the skill to change the game with one moment of skill. Yes, ideally they would defend too, but if they don't, then that's the reason you have 4 defenders for.

Totally agree and reiterate my point about Berbatov being a massive reason Man U won the title and being the golden boot winner without making a tackle or tracking back once. He is renowned for being lazy yet he helped a team win the title. And that without starting every game.

So - the grafters worked in the first few games? 1 point would suggest not.

[Busheyboy]

It's very simple. Adel's is the architect if his own destiny. Skill, flair, flashes of game changing brilliance, fabulous goals, passes other players can't see or have the ability or audacity to make are what he's all about. Unfortunately, that works in the division below, as he proved.
In the PL, it has to be combined with never say die commitment, fitting into a team ethic and understandng he's now playing against fitter, better quality and has to add the necessary qualities to his undoubted talent. On Sunday, Park lost the ball deep in the Spurs half and ended up winning a tackle in our box, caused he chased back and had the desire and determination to win the ball. Fans love to see flair but hate to see players not always putting it in and who appear selfish, lazy and moody. Adel sometimes comes across like this

[stainrodisalegend]

I'm all for mavericks - its what QPR for many of us represents and why I'm a huge Adel fan. Two qualifications: in the modern game even mavericks have to work (look how Ferguson transformed Ronaldo) and maybe this is what Mark Hughes is trying to instill in Adel and Cisse. Second, re Berbatov I'd have loved to see him play for Rs because with him there is always an end product - goals. But with Adel its not always obvious there will be an end product and its much, much easier for a Man Utd to carry a bit of a stroller than it is for a struggling team such as ours, which might spend a lot of games chasing the ball - and if it loses the ball knows its defence will then come under pressure it might struggle to cope with. In short, there are arguments on both sides and thriving in the prem is about having the squad and the manager who can mix it up as the occasion demands.

[Busheyboy]

Good call, some of us grew up watching Marsh, Bowles, Currie, Harkouk, Stainrod and Wegerle. All great talents but in 2012, the game is different, levels of fitness are higher, the pace is faster, diets and training methods have changed. Don't get me wrong, I love flair and skill but it has to be combined with graft and sweat

I'm all for mavericks - its what QPR for many of us represents and why I'm a huge Adel fan. Two qualifications: in the modern game even mavericks have to work (look how Ferguson transformed Ronaldo) and maybe this is what Mark Hughes is trying to instill in Adel and Cisse. Second, re Berbatov I'd have loved to see him play for Rs because with him there is always an end product - goals. But with Adel its not always obvious there will be an end product and its much, much easier for a Man Utd to carry a bit of a stroller than it is for a struggling team such as ours, which might spend a lot of games chasing the ball - and if it loses the ball knows its defence will then come under pressure it might struggle to cope with. In short, there are arguments on both sides and thriving in the prem is about having the squad and the manager who can mix it up as the occasion demands.

[qprbrisbanedivision]

ridiculous OP

Granero has won more trophies and titles witha bigger club than T could name
Also part of one of the most formidable RM midfields ever.

On what planet has Tarbs ever got anywhere near his level. you cannot compare Tarbs to granero..It aint fair on Tarbs as hecomes out looking a very p-poor second best..

For the record, he still hasnt done it at top level..yet...still waiting....?!

[Johnnykc]

ridiculous OP

Granero has won more trophies and titles witha bigger club than T could name
Also part of one of the most formidable RM midfields ever.

On what planet has Tarbs ever got anywhere near his level. you cannot compare Tarbs to granero..It aint fair on Tarbs as hecomes out looking a very p-poor second best..

For the record, he still hasnt done it at top level..yet...still waiting....?!

He hasn't been playing this season (bar 1 app) so, to be fair to the talented Adel, it will be quite difficult for him to impress you.......

[hoopsididitagain]

Granero is a deep laying playmaker who plays in the centre of Midfield in a Xabi Alonso mold. Adel Taarabt is, if he can be defined, a flexible trequartista who plays as a forward or an inside forward coming off either flank. I would not say they are competing at all and would never want to see Adel put into the centre of the park. If he should be competing with anyone it would be Hoilett, Wright-Phillips or Zamora/Cisse. When you look at how three of these players have played so far it is surprising that Taarabt, if he has been fit, has not had some game time, particularly on the right of midfield (though this is not his best position in my opinion). The use (or lack of it) of Cisse up front suggests that Hughes has had a sea change in attitude to formation this season and is starting to assert his more robust preferences on the team. To suggest also that Granero was anything less than well above average against Tottenham shows a very loose understanding of the game, he and Faurlin were excellent, as they were against Chelsea also.

[Busheyboy]

Agreed, we shouldn't compare players who play in different positions. As other people have stated, Tarbs has not played well on a consistent basis since we came up. If he becomes consistent, the sky's the limit, no question

Granero is a deep laying playmaker who plays in the centre of Midfield in a Xabi Alonso mold. Adel Taarabt is, if he can be defined, a flexible trequartista who plays as a forward or an inside forward coming off either flank. I would not say they are competing at all and would never want to see Adel put into the centre of the park. If he should be competing with anyone it would be Hoilett, Wright-Phillips or Zamora/Cisse. When you look at how three of these players have played so far it is surprising that Taarabt, if he has been fit, has not had some game time, particularly on the right of midfield (though this is not his best position in my opinion). The use (or lack of it) of Cisse up front suggests that Hughes has had a sea change in attitude to formation this season and is starting to assert his more robust preferences on the team. To suggest also that Granero was anything less than well above average against Tottenham shows a very loose understanding of the game, he and Faurlin were excellent, as they were against Chelsea also.

[Johnnykc]

Granero is a deep laying playmaker who plays in the centre of Midfield in a Xabi Alonso mold. Adel Taarabt is, if he can be defined, a flexible trequartista who plays as a forward or an inside forward coming off either flank. I would not say they are competing at all and would never want to see Adel put into the centre of the park. If he should be competing with anyone it would be Hoilett, Wright-Phillips or Zamora/Cisse. When you look at how three of these players have played so far it is surprising that Taarabt, if he has been fit, has not had some game time, particularly on the right of midfield (though this is not his best position in my opinion). The use (or lack of it) of Cisse up front suggests that Hughes has had a sea change in attitude to formation this season and is starting to assert his more robust preferences on the team. To suggest also that Granero was anything less than well above average against Tottenham shows a very loose understanding of the game, he and Faurlin were excellent, as they were against Chelsea also.

Get yourself over to the word association thread......you will ruuuuule......

[Will M]

Well, I think there is such a thing as having too big a squad. It often means you have to constantly rotate to keep players happy, and the squad doesn't get fluidity.

I personally would not have bought Granero, but now that we have him, we can't not play him. I would personally take out SWP and put Adel on the wing (even though it's not his best position), but as I don't see that happening, I think we should sell him. I would hate to see his career wasted sitting on the bench.

So, if we didn't have Granero do you think Adel would be able to dominate games alongside Ale like we did against Spurs?

[Will M]

Totally agree and reiterate my point about Berbatov being a massive reason Man U won the title and being the golden boot winner without making a tackle or tracking back once. He is renowned for being lazy yet he helped a team win the title. And that without starting every game.

So - the grafters worked in the first few games? 1 point would suggest not.

We have 2 points. Against Norwich and Chelsea. And we've been playing some good football along the way. One of our biggest grafters is also smacking in the goals.

Messi tracks back, watch Barca play they all work hard. Scholes is the biggest English talent we have produced since Gascoigne. Both of whom not afraid to do a bit of work. Early in his career Rooney also used to track back, his game has gotten lazy and as a result it's rumoured Ferguson is massively unhappy with the guy.

Berbatov in the season you refer to actually did track back alot, especially in home games.

[Johnnykc]

We have 2 points. Against Norwich and Chelsea. And we've been playing some good football along the way. One of our biggest grafters is also smacking in the goals.

Messi tracks back, watch Barca play they all work hard. Scholes is the biggest English talent we have produced since Gascoigne. Both of whom not afraid to do a bit of work. Early in his career Rooney also used to track back, his game has gotten lazy and as a result it's rumoured Ferguson is massively unhappy with the guy.

Berbatov in the season you refer to actually did track back alot, especially in home games.

I'm not sure Scholes willingness to track back, tackle and either give a away a free kick or pick up a yellow is the ideal example!:=):

But your point about talent AND graft is a good one.....

[Will M]

I'm not sure Scholes willingness to track back, tackle and either give a away a free kick or pick up a yellow is the ideal example!:=):

But your point about talent AND graft is a good one.....

Some of his tackles were brutal, but he did a lot of good defensive work for United and England over the years.

And yes, this is just another reason why Scholes, Messi and the like will always be on another level to Adel. It's not just Mark Hughes that wants a work ethic in teams.

[MattyRangers]

I'm not sure Scholes willingness to track back, tackle and either give a away a free kick or pick up a yellow is the ideal example!:=):

But your point about talent AND graft is a good one.....

EDIT: Removed whilst Will eats his lunch