Message to Tony Fernandes

[Tarbie]

Best idea is to make a company more attractive is to sell the assets and use the funds to reduce the debt.

But we don't have any debt mate. The current board of directors assumed the debt through a holdings company, and then made it disappear by converting it to shares.

This leaves us in a situation where we owe nothing, but our board are left holding shares that they paid way over the odds for. As such, their best bet to recoup some of their losses is to try and inflate the share prices as much as possible in the lead up to a sale.

You follow my train of thought?

[Jimmy Floyd Rabbit]

If he is asset-stripping he's not doing a very good job.
As I have said before with TF, I quite like him and think he is genuinely well-intentioned. He has definitely made mistakes but he does at least acknowledge them unlike a lot of other owners. I still hold some hope it will turn around. IH is out of his depth though. Again, I like him for his passion but he gets too much wrong tactically.

I just find it hard to hate these two like a lot of you seem too.

I hate them for their incompetence. It's not personal.

I would happily meet, shake hands and chat to either or both should I ever bump into them.

Make no mistake though, I wouldn't be shy in expressing views on their tenures.

I'm sure they're lovely people. It's just they are CRAP at their jobs!!

[Jimmy Floyd Rabbit]

Would I want Tango and Cash back? Never mate. Would be nice if we could have a chairman at some stage who understands what we are as a club though. None of this Boutique Football cobblers, or delusions of grandeur. Just a chairman who understands our history, understands what most of our fans are about, and wants to run the club sensibly. Is that really too much to hope for?

Get Bill Power back

[Tarbie]

Get Bill Power back

I suspect Powers biggest mistake was who he surrounded himself with, more than anything. I'm pretty sure the guy had the clubs best interests at heart.

We've had some really bad luck with chairmen and investors, haven't we? Has there been a decent one at all since Chris Wright came in? Amit Bhatia of course, but he only ever really had any significant input for a very short period of time. I still hold him responsible for our promotion (along with Warnock and Adel of course).

[hal9thou]

a holdings company

and it's the holdings company that has the interest in OOC. Question: do you think OOC makes a buy out / sale more or less likely? I could see it massively complicating any sale, what do you reckon?

I hate them for their incompetence. It's not personal.

I would happily meet, shake hands and chat to either or both should I ever bump into them.

Make no mistake though, I wouldn't be shy in expressing views on their tenures.

I'm sure they're lovely people. It's just they are CRAP at their jobs!!

Exactly this. re Tango and Cash: superior PPG record, and - like everyone else - a stratospherically better PPG ratio per £ spent.
Fernandes has been almost comically incompetent. It's hilarious that this man finds himself at Davos, which he does by reason of his wealth and not because of his expertise. Air Asia was very largely Air Malaysia, ie govt funded. You can be extremely wealthy and still not very good at your job. It happpens.

[Route One]

and it's the holdings company that has the interest in OOC. Question: do you think OOC makes a buy out / sale more or less likely? I could see it massively complicating any sale, what do you reckon?




Exactly this. re Tango and Cash: superior PPG record, and - like everyone else - a stratospherically better PPG ratio per £ spent.
Fernandes has been almost comically incompetent. It's hilarious that this man finds himself at Davos, which he does by reason of his wealth and not because of his expertise. Air Asia was very largely Air Malaysia, ie govt funded. You can be extremely wealthy and still not very good at your job. It happpens.

That takes the award for the most ###### point i've ever read on a forum.

Assume you're delighted that we are cutting our spending back so much to stand a chance of improving that ratio.

[Tarbie]

and it's the holdings company that has the interest in OOC. Question: do you think OOC makes a buy out / sale more or less likely? I could see it massively complicating any sale, what do you reckon?

As I understand it, a holding company is just a parent company. I believe 66% of QPR is owned by Tune Group, which is basically Tony and his pals. Tune Group is not limited to just owning QPR, they have a number of other companies and investments under their umbrella.

I don't know too much about OOC and who the potential owners would be, but I'm assuming from what you are saying that this too will be owned by Tune Group?

I'd assume that our new stadium would be an integral part in the new development. London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham have a duty of care when it comes to protecting the clubs best interests, and I'm sure Tony is using that to his advantage.

[Shepherds Mush]

But we don't have any debt mate. The current board of directors assumed the debt through a holdings company, and then made it disappear by converting it to shares.

This leaves us in a situation where we owe nothing, but our board are left holding shares that they paid way over the odds for. As such, their best bet to recoup some of their losses is to try and inflate the share prices as much as possible in the lead up to a sale.

You follow my train of thought?

Bank loan and shareholder loans are liabilities thus you can pay some of those off with the funds from the sale of assets.

[Tarbie]

Bank loan and shareholder loans are liabilities thus you can pay some of those off with the funds from the sale of assets.

But we don't have either mate. The bank debts and everything else were consolidated and replaced with an interest free loan from QPR Holdings Ltd to the club. Then in late 2015 the 180m quid loan from QPR holdings was paid off and converted into shares which were issued to Tune Group (Tony and his associates).

In other words, Tony and his pals wrote the debt off. And at the same time, a load of new shares were issued. Obviously in issuing these new shares they devalued the price of the existing shares (of which they held the majority), and as such they didn't really do themselves any favours. As I see it, it was basically a vehicle to write off a load of debt without causing more problems with FFP.............And obviously it now appears that it really hasn't helped that much anyway.

You following me yet? Can't pay off debts you don't have. But you can sell a company with cash in bank in order to push the sale price up!

[Hitman34]

But we don't have any debt mate. The current board of directors assumed the debt through a holdings company, and then made it disappear by converting it to shares.

This leaves us in a situation where we owe nothing, but our board are left holding shares that they paid way over the odds for. As such, their best bet to recoup some of their losses is to try and inflate the share prices as much as possible in the lead up to a sale.

You follow my train of thought?

We have a 40mil plus fine waiting to drop on our laps mate.

thats plenty of debt as it is.

[Bill]

But we don't have any debt mate. The current board of directors assumed the debt through a holdings company, and then made it disappear by converting it to shares.

This leaves us in a situation where we owe nothing, but our board are left holding shares that they paid way over the odds for. As such, their best bet to recoup some of their losses is to try and inflate the share prices as much as possible in the lead up to a sale.

You follow my train of thought?

The club does have debt which ever way you want t spin it

[Tarbie]

The club does have debt which ever way you want t spin it

But we don't Bill. We have a group of owners that paid way over the odds for the shares that they currently hold. That's it!

We will of course have a fine for FFP that could become a debt......whenever that is sorted out. But Tony has been quoted as saying he will pay that himself if it comes down to it.

[Kevin Mcleod]

We have a 40mil plus fine waiting to drop on our laps mate.

thats plenty of debt as it is.

The asset stripper has already said he weill pay that from his own Abbey National book.

[Shepherds Mush]

But we don't have either mate. The bank debts and everything else were consolidated and replaced with an interest free loan from QPR Holdings Ltd to the club. Then in late 2015 the 180m quid loan from QPR holdings was paid off and converted into shares which were issued to Tune Group (Tony and his associates).

In other words, Tony and his pals wrote the debt off. And at the same time, a load of new shares were issued. Obviously in issuing these new shares they devalued the price of the existing shares (of which they held the majority), and as such they didn't really do themselves any favours. As I see it, it was basically a vehicle to write off a load of debt without causing more problems with FFP.............And obviously it now appears that it really hasn't helped that much anyway.

You following me yet? Can't pay off debts you don't have. But you can sell a company with cash in bank in order to push the sale price up!

Not sure the £11m bank loan secured on Loftus Road was paid off at any time recently !? Can't recall that story coming out anywhere.

As for the shareholder loans, I vaguely remember them being convertible loans which would only be a debt if they didn't take the shares (and I'm assuming they did in 2017)

Will be interesting to see the 2017 accounts.

[Tarbie]

Not sure the £11m bank loan secured on Loftus Road was paid off at any time recently !? Can't recall that story coming out anywhere.

As for the shareholder loans, I vaguely remember them being convertible loans which would only be a debt if they didn't take the shares (and I'm assuming they did in 2017)

Will be interesting to see the 2017 accounts.

Yeah, your right actually. 11m quid external debt in last years accounts. Guess I'd forgotten about that. Apologies.

As you say, will be interesting to see what the next set of accounts look like.