DOF

[CroydonCaptainJack]

I certainly recognise all the good work LF is doing off the pitch - he deserves much credit for that, but what ultimately counts are his managerial appointments which have so far proved disastrous.

I don't think people do give him enough credit for it though. He is just 'evil Les' isn't he?
I do agree on your point about the managerial appointments though although I am not advocating sacking Ollie yet as we do need stability. If we got sucked into a relegation battle I suspect that might happen though and it would be pretty disastrous to go down.

[Hitman34]

Director of farkups

[Stanley]

I don't think people do give him enough credit for it though. He is just 'evil Les' isn't he?
I do agree on your point about the managerial appointments though although I am not advocating sacking Ollie yet as we do need stability. If we got sucked into a relegation battle I suspect that might happen though and it would be pretty disastrous to go down.

Agree on all that CCJ.

[Hubble]

Context. It's all about context. When someone cites our recent away record, or poor managerial appointments - taken in isolation - it seems like things are bad and even possibly getting worse.

But, who have other championship/league clubs appointed during the same timeframe? And how have they fared in comparison? How successful have they been? Once you take out the obvious success stories like David Wagner and Huddersfield, or at Sean Dyche at Burnley you can see a litany of poor or terrible appointments across the board. Clubs not dissimilar to us have fared disastrously in context in recent seasons: Bolton, Hull, Birmingham, Sunderland, Wigan, Blackburn, Charlton.... there are plenty more...

So in that context - and then factoring in the FFP fine that hangs over the club forcing it to take severe measures to remain below that budget threshold - we are in point of fact doing okay. We haven't been relegated (I know some will say 'yet'). I know at times it's fairly miserable, but hey, welcome to the world of a football supporter. You take the highs with the lows. On this forum in particular, there seems to be this extreme reaction to what's going on, as if we should somehow be storming the league or at least in the play-offs, and anything worse than that is utter failure. This is a journey folks, and we've been on the rollercoaster a long time (some of us a very long time!). I get that people want to complain or moan about a poor performance or run of results, but the constant moaning and complaining does my head in a bit, I have to admit. As if there is a perfect and obvious scenario that those dullards Lee Hoos and Les are incapable of seeing, but if only they'd read this board and act appropriately, everything would be rosy. Well tbh I don't think those are realistic expectations.

What would realistic expectations look like, in context? Well for me, surviving in this division until FFP is sorted, basically. Anything better than not getting relegated is a bonus IMO. I'd also see the proper foundations being put in place. Sure, it can seem painfully slow, but it is happening. So I'd also expect to see the training ground issue sorted, eventually, and to see more of our young talent coming through, and then, in maybe two or three years time, a tilt at promotion. Those are my expectations and I don't think any of the team is doing a bad job in that regard.

[Dale]

Les is a pestilence to the club

It hurts to see the damage this man has done

The club adopt leftist ideologies and all seems to stem from when Les joined

Its all rotten right now, needs a good clear out from the top

[Bill]

Director of farkups

Its a cracker

[Bill]

And given the choice, which is the more important of those two areas? Surely most would argue the latter?

If he'd been more successful with his managerial appointments we wouldn't even be having this conversation - and lets make no bones about it, he couldn't have been any less successful.

This is why so many people question his position, his title, his role - and if a DoF is even necessary for a club of our small size. Yes, you can certainly see why bigger clubs need them.

And to pre-empt all the LF defenders, in no way is this to bash the guy as I'm sure he's doing the best he can, and when TF approached him with the job offer, of course he wasn't going to turn it down.



LF is on record as saying he's had to learn whilst on the job. I guess that kind of answers your question. IOW someone at least with a semblance of track record, as opposed to just another R's club legend.

Learning whilst on the job thats the problem then to much shag gin and not enough ................

[CroydonCaptainJack]

Context. It's all about context. When someone cites our recent away record, or poor managerial appointments - taken in isolation - it seems like things are bad and even possibly getting worse.

But, who have other championship/league clubs appointed during the same timeframe? And how have they fared in comparison? How successful have they been? Once you take out the obvious success stories like David Wagner and Huddersfield, or at Sean Dyche at Burnley you can see a litany of poor or terrible appointments across the board. Clubs not dissimilar to us have fared disastrously in context in recent seasons: Bolton, Hull, Birmingham, Sunderland, Wigan, Blackburn, Charlton.... there are plenty more...

So in that context - and then factoring in the FFP fine that hangs over the club forcing it to take severe measures to remain below that budget threshold - we are in point of fact doing okay. We haven't been relegated (I know some will say 'yet'). I know at times it's fairly miserable, but hey, welcome to the world of a football supporter. You take the highs with the lows. On this forum in particular, there seems to be this extreme reaction to what's going on, as if we should somehow be storming the league or at least in the play-offs, and anything worse than that is utter failure. This is a journey folks, and we've been on the rollercoaster a long time (some of us a very long time!). I get that people want to complain or moan about a poor performance or run of results, but the constant moaning and complaining does my head in a bit, I have to admit. As if there is a perfect and obvious scenario that those dullards Lee Hoos and Les are incapable of seeing, but if only they'd read this board and act appropriately, everything would be rosy. Well tbh I don't think those are realistic expectations.

What would realistic expectations look like, in context? Well for me, surviving in this division until FFP is sorted, basically. Anything better than not getting relegated is a bonus IMO. I'd also see the proper foundations being put in place. Sure, it can seem painfully slow, but it is happening. So I'd also expect to see the training ground issue sorted, eventually, and to see more of our young talent coming through, and then, in maybe two or three years time, a tilt at promotion. Those are my expectations and I don't think any of the team is doing a bad job in that regard.

Great post Hubs. it's good to have a reality check. I feel the same.

[CroydonCaptainJack]

Director of farkups

Thus proving my point #shallowman

[Bill]

Director of farkups

Director of Failure

[HertsHoops]

Context. It's all about context. When someone cites our recent away record, or poor managerial appointments - taken in isolation - it seems like things are bad and even possibly getting worse.

But, who have other championship/league clubs appointed during the same timeframe? And how have they fared in comparison? How successful have they been? Once you take out the obvious success stories like David Wagner and Huddersfield, or at Sean Dyche at Burnley you can see a litany of poor or terrible appointments across the board. Clubs not dissimilar to us have fared disastrously in context in recent seasons: Bolton, Hull, Birmingham, Sunderland, Wigan, Blackburn, Charlton.... there are plenty more...

So in that context - and then factoring in the FFP fine that hangs over the club forcing it to take severe measures to remain below that budget threshold - we are in point of fact doing okay. We haven't been relegated (I know some will say 'yet'). I know at times it's fairly miserable, but hey, welcome to the world of a football supporter. You take the highs with the lows. On this forum in particular, there seems to be this extreme reaction to what's going on, as if we should somehow be storming the league or at least in the play-offs, and anything worse than that is utter failure. This is a journey folks, and we've been on the rollercoaster a long time (some of us a very long time!). I get that people want to complain or moan about a poor performance or run of results, but the constant moaning and complaining does my head in a bit, I have to admit. As if there is a perfect and obvious scenario that those dullards Lee Hoos and Les are incapable of seeing, but if only they'd read this board and act appropriately, everything would be rosy. Well tbh I don't think those are realistic expectations.

What would realistic expectations look like, in context? Well for me, surviving in this division until FFP is sorted, basically. Anything better than not getting relegated is a bonus IMO. I'd also see the proper foundations being put in place. Sure, it can seem painfully slow, but it is happening. So I'd also expect to see the training ground issue sorted, eventually, and to see more of our young talent coming through, and then, in maybe two or three years time, a tilt at promotion. Those are my expectations and I don't think any of the team is doing a bad job in that regard.

Abso-bloody-lutely and with bells on

[qprjeff1882]

Apart from the last 3 managers that have been employed of which they haven't worked out as well as the club would have hoped. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Who actually knows what Les does day to day. No one does. Just because we can't see like we do when we play doesn't mean he is doing a bad job.

[1cliveallen]

I get why people are sceptical of the DOF role and why it may put off some managers.

However for me makes perfect sense. An old school manager had to do the lot. If some of 'the lot' is taken away that in theory allows them to concentrate on the team itself and getting that part right.

It is common abroad. Most of the successful managers in this country are foreign and used to having a DOF. English managers generally nowhere near as good as foreigners. Do we really have a top English manager? Even likes of Big Sam are not really trophy challengers. That suggests to me that foreign mentality/systems/ways of doing things works better. Perhaps we should therefore accept things like DOF roles as a progression of the game in this country and we are a little ahead of some of our competitors, in that regard anyway.

Same as any kind of job. The less someone has to do the more they can concentrate on what they have left. Maybe the fact we have a DOF would be seen as a positive by a foreign manager looking to try their hand at things over here.

shankly, Paisley, dalglish, sexton, venables, Ferguson certainly didn’t need a DOF. Could you imagine a DOF telling cloughie what players he would be getting? Never in a million years. Plus our DOF is pushing a political statement or two on us and that alone should be enough to get him the push.. I personally believe we’ve dipped our toe in the DOF water and not got too much out of it so move on without him.....

[Rangers77]

Director Of Failure

LOL.

[acricketer]

Director of Failure

Thank you.