fernandes

[QPR Richard]

a) That misses the point slightly. The concern isn't necessarily that TF will suddenly call in all his debts - though that it of course still a worry. Ironically it's slightly less of a worry since we essentially have only Loftus Road and 3.5 players as assets right now.

The point is that the huge overspending leaves us completely fooked if TF and co decide to stop funding us. Then all of a sudden we *will* have external debts.

The fact our debt is owed to TF and co right now is only because he's been covering it. It's not like we don't have bills to pay, primarily to players.

b) No one in their right mind. I get that.

But what happens if in a year or two we are still in the Championship and TF decides £60m per year down the QPR black hole isn't the best use of his money?

What happens if planning permission for the new ground - the entire business model behind his QPR purchase - falls through?

We'd still have the same outgoings, only suddenly we're clocking up £60m per year to people who can and will call in their debts.

This idea that planning permission may fall through is absurd. If you haven't been keeping up to date, loads of land has already been bought up, the scheme is backed by local government and the GLA, and the Mayor of London. Pretty serious support wouldn't you say?

Stop fretting....

[Geng]

So everything is fine and dandy until suddenly it isn't, is that the deal?

Let me guess you guys were among those slating everyone who said we were playing badly when we were top of the league back in November? You probably also shouted down everyone who expressed reservations about HR ages ago too.

EVERYTHING IS FINE. NO CRITICAL ANALYSIS ALLOWED HERE. PLEASE MOVE ON.

[Geng]

This idea that planning permission may fall through is absurd. If you haven't been keeping up to date, loads of land has already been bought up, the scheme is backed by local government and the GLA, and the Mayor of London. Pretty serious support wouldn't you say?

Stop fretting....

The scheme in general has, but not TF's mega-multipurpose-oneDirectionconcerts stadium. Could very easily be gazumped by some developers who want to build a shopping centre or more flats. Local residents could challenge any new stadium legally, all sorts of things.

I think it probably will go ahead, but it's hardly the done deal people make it out to be.

Lots of people here easily wowed by some architectural drawings and a few tweets.

[brightonr]

a) That misses the point slightly. The concern isn't necessarily that TF will suddenly call in all his debts - though that it of course still a worry. Ironically it's slightly less of a worry since we essentially have only Loftus Road and 3.5 players as assets right now.

The point is that the huge overspending leaves us completely fooked if TF and co decide to stop funding us. Then all of a sudden we *will* have external debts.

The fact our debt is owed to TF and co right now is only because he's been covering it. It's not like we don't have bills to pay, primarily to players.

b) No one in their right mind. I get that.

But what happens if in a year or two we are still in the Championship and TF decides £60m per year down the QPR black hole isn't the best use of his money?

What happens if planning permission for the new ground - the entire business model behind his QPR purchase - falls through?

We'd still have the same outgoings, only suddenly we're clocking up £60m per year to people who can and will call in their debts.

If they stop funding us though, surely we will only have external debt if another party has been stupid enough to allow us credit?

And it isn't compulsory for us to continue to lose £60m per year. Can't see that being allowed to happen.

Oh and guys, Geng has valid concerns and is only expressing them. I'm sure he takes no pleasure from any of this, but is just worried, the same as we all get from time to time. It is a forum after all. Differing opinions are surely what we need in order to learn.
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Unless of course you think Harry is doing a good job, in which case you are simply mad.

[Hitman34]

richard dunne and clint hill. are the other two harry's summer targets mate?

[Kirill]

Unless of course you think Harry is doing a good job, in which case you are simply mad.

Best sanity test I have seen for ages

[QPReuge]

If you read through your posts this evening you might just realise you've been doing most of the shouting down.
Your tone has been unbelievably arrogant and patronising, two of the worst traits to have in someone who claims to be good at backing up an argument.
In between your obnoxious outbursts you've throw in a few selective numbers but conveniently left out others.
Have you included such things as the sale of chris samba and the inevitable sale of loic remy in your projected figures.
You might say they are a drop in the ocean but its a matter of principle, all or nothing.

[Geng]

If they stop funding us though, surely we will only have external debt if another party has been stupid enough to allow us credit?

And it isn't compulsory for us to continue to lose £60m per year. Can't see that being allowed to happen.

Oh and guys, Geng has valid concerns and is only expressing them. I'm sure he takes no pleasure from any of this, but is just worried, the same as we all get from time to time. It is a forum after all. Differing opinions are surely what we need in order to learn.
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Unless of course you think Harry is doing a good job, in which case you are simply mad.

thanks. appreciate you actually putting the opposing case rather than shouting me down.

If TF and co stop funding us we'll have external debts from that very moment. We'll still have bills to pay, of course (mostly on players).

So the point is we wouldn't have the money to pay what we owe. It wouldn't need 'an external party allowing us credit', just the fact that we couldn't pay.

It's not like the local St John's ambulance decided to give Portsmouth and Leeds a line of credit. They just sent in invoices and found the club couldn't pay any more.

Players don't 'extend credit' to clubs, they just dont get paid. But they're still perfectly capable of putting a club into admin. Look at Portsmouth paying John Utaka 60k pw when they were in admin.

(Of course, players always get paid in full. This is because they have a great trade union that wields all the power and wrote this into their agreement with the league).

And it's much harder to cutback than people realise. Clubs like Plymouth, Leeds, Portsmouth etc knew they were in deep trouble and it still took them years to stop losing money.

Anyone seriously think the likes of Anton left on a "free"? You think his Turkish club are paying him the same salary he got here? You think he voluntarily waved several million quid to go there? No chance. All this player shifting costs us a lot.

Consider that ~68m wage bill and don't forget how many players still have several years of huge contracts to run. And then think how little you make in the Championship once parachutes run out, relative to those Premiership wages (think: QPR late 90s)

[Hitman34]

If you read through your posts this evening you might just realise you've been doing most of the shouting down.
Your tone has been unbelievably arrogant and patronising, two of the worst traits to have in someone who claims to be good at backing up an argument.
In between your obnoxious outbursts you've throw in a few selective numbers but conveniently left out others.
Have you included such things as the sale of chris samba and the inevitable sale of loic remy in your projected figures.
You might say they are a drop in the ocean but its a matter of principle, all or nothing.

ok let me have a go, this coulb be fun.

incomings.....

samba 12mil
remy 10mil + 2 mil loan fee
tarrabt 5mil - 40% 2mil + 1 mil loan fee.
granero 3mil at best
nike deal (best est 45 mil lets just say lumpsum for the hell of it.
tv deal 10 mil
comercial rev £4 mil

total 86 mil

outgoings

austin 4mil
philips 5mil
simpson 2mil
+30 mil in squad wages
45mil fine for the debt
177 mil debt
15mil owed to the bank.

total outgoingsl 293 mil.

looks bright for the future hey!

[Geng]

If you read through your posts this evening you might just realise you've been doing most of the shouting down.
Your tone has been unbelievably arrogant and patronising, two of the worst traits to have in someone who claims to be good at backing up an argument.
In between your obnoxious outbursts you've throw in a few selective numbers but conveniently left out others.
Have you included such things as the sale of chris samba and the inevitable sale of loic remy in your projected figures.
You might say they are a drop in the ocean but its a matter of principle, all or nothing.

apologies if I've overstepped the line tonight, explaining things numerous times can get frustrating! but bear in mind how arrogant it is of everyone here to shout down someone who actually knows what they're talking about. Some of the basic errors in simple business operation, finance etc are laughable, and yet many here feel qualified to pretend they're the new David Conn.

so, for the zillionth time, the accounts are legally-binding publicly available documents that all companies must file. They aren't selective.

Why would I tack on a random player who we might sell? Have you included our future purchases? As I said, we only have 3.5 playing assets: Remy, Phillips, Austin and Adel is .5 since he'll either self-destruct or he'll stay at Milan but we'll get way less than his full value.

Ok we'll get 10m or whatever for Remy (obvs way less than the market rate but I assume he'll have some sort of clause).

That will cover wages for Barton, Cesar & SWP since those last accounts were filed.

Not much is it?

[Geng]

Blog by a non-Rangers fan who has had a look at our finances. Please read before you slate me further: http://twohundredpercent.net/?p=25505

The money quote is the second half of the third para (which I can't copy-paste for some reason)

[Geng]

ok let me have a go, this coulb be fun.

incomings.....

samba 12mil
remy 10mil + 2 mil loan fee
tarrabt 5mil - 40% 2mil + 1 mil loan fee.
granero 3mil at best
nike deal (best est 45 mil lets just say lumpsum for the hell of it.
tv deal 10 mil
comercial rev £4 mil

total 86 mil

outgoings

austin 4mil
philips 5mil
simpson 2mil
+30 mil in squad wages
45mil fine for the debt
177 mil debt
15mil owed to the bank.

total outgoingsl 293 mil.

looks bright for the future hey!

Well Samba came and went within the same financial year so he shouldn't make much difference.Something very dodgy about that deal anyway, who knows who actually made any money there.

We're paying Granero too much for him to be sold for a fee, esp since he'll only be back from injury this summer.

Gotta add in parachute payments too. Forget how much but will be a lot

[QPR Richard]

The scheme in general has, but not TF's mega-multipurpose-oneDirectionconcerts stadium. Could very easily be gazumped by some developers who want to build a shopping centre or more flats. Local residents could challenge any new stadium legally, all sorts of things.

I think it probably will go ahead, but it's hardly the done deal people make it out to be.

Lots of people here easily wowed by some architectural drawings and a few tweets.

Interesting you think the stadium is being built for One Direction concerts. That's funny. Never in the history of popular music has a multi-million pound arena been constructed for a boy band. That really is amazing!

As for some people being wowed by a few pictures and tweets, don't you think the Mayor, or the council, or the GLA, or our partners in the project, wouldn't be issuing law suits if these plans were all nonsense?

Can I suggest you do some research into the subject to see the many statements that have been issued by a number of organisations involved in the project? You might see it's more than just a few drawings and tweets.

[QPReuge]

ok let me have a go, this coulb be fun.

incomings.....

samba 12mil
remy 10mil + 2 mil loan fee
tarrabt 5mil - 40% 2mil + 1 mil loan fee.
granero 3mil at best
nike deal (best est 45 mil lets just say lumpsum for the hell of it.
tv deal 10 mil
comercial rev £4 mil

total 86 mil

outgoings

austin 4mil
philips 5mil
simpson 2mil
+30 mil in squad wages
45mil fine for the debt
177 mil debt
15mil owed to the bank.

total outgoingsl 293 mil.

looks bright for the future hey!

Ha ha. It must be miss the point night tonight.
Like I said in an earlier post hit man, I don't for one minute think things are rosy. I was merely pointing out, to someone who came across as particularly arrogant in the manner, that the figures they were happy to quote weren't the full picture.
Maybe you And gunk could get a two for one deal in a night class on reading and absorbing information

[kron-1664]

Before we were funded by some rich dudes 5 years ago we were about to go into meltdown again. Lets face it we are entirely in their hands .