Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The thread to end all threads about Koreans following particular football players

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The thread to end all threads about Koreans following particular football players

    Hello guys, this is my first thread at WATRB. I am writing it because I see the need to direct some traffic in the right direction regarding this topic.

    I see a good number of long-standing QPR supporters on this forum who repeatedly criticize the new Korean fans who have started supporting or following QPR after Park's transfer. Most of these critics endlessly repeat that Korean fans follow particular football players (Park) instead of the club (QPR), and conclude that they either can't understand or accept these fans. Some of them go as far as to telling these new fans to get out of here, in all sorts of ways (explicitly or by abuse).

    While I think that more members of this forum actually do understand how such a phenomenon occurs and are fine with it, the ones who do not understand appear to be much more vocal about it, to the point that it is causing a lot of argument and conflict on this forum. So, here are my two cents.

    Very recently, I was told, "we support teams over here and not individuals so the whole team ethos on this board is probably hard for you to grasp". Actually, I understand that perfectly. I support particular sports teams rather than the player too -- for example, I support the Fighting Illini NCAA basketball team, because UIUC is my alma mater. Korea has a football league of its own, which is not on par with the EPL, obviously, but Korean football fans do support their own clubs. Korean football fans who live in Incheon would more likely than not support Incheon United FC, whereas those who live in Seoul would support FC Seoul. This is the same with the professional baseball league in Korea, people support a particular team. It really is no different from your average English football fan supporting QPR.

    To further aid your understanding, here is some background on how some Korean football fans became fans of QPR. It all began with following a team, specifically the national football team of South Korea. You do also follow your national team (I presume England), do you not? It was no different for Koreans. However, with England football was its own creation and English clubs flourished in the game for over a century, whereas with Koreans the first real breakthrough in international competitions was in 2002, when South Korea's national team defeated numerous excellent teams such as Portugal, Italy, and Spain to place fourth in the World Cup. This was also the first World Cup that Korea (and Japan) hosted, which vastly increased the level of interest that an average Korean individual had in football. Tens of millions of Koreans roamed the streets cheering during this World Cup.

    During this renowned World Cup, it was Ji Sung Park who trapped an incoming ball with his chest, juggled it up and volley-shot to score the winner against Portugal. The national team then eventually went on to place fourth. Naturally, all of the members of this national team became national heroes at the end of the World Cup. This was how Park first became one of the favorite players of all Koreans -- by playing on the national team which played so well, and more so by contributing to its impressive run.

    If you were in the Koreans' shoes, would this event not have endeared you to the players who constituted the team, simply because he did not belong to your own local club? Of course not. Then, it just so happened that Ji Sung Park continued his success at the club level at PSV Eindhoven and Manchester United, which made him special even amongst the famous players of the 2002 national team. It also greatly helped pique Korean football fans' interest that Park was playing in Guus Hiddink's club, as Hiddink was the mastermind who led S. Korea to its World Cup run in 2002, and then the most renowned football club in the world. As more time passed, Park gradually became the most successful Korean (and arguably Asian) football player in recent history, and that is how Park became the current-day icon of football in Korea.

    Let's shift this perspective to that of the average English football fan. The average English football fan supports a particular club, but also follows the EPL in general and its players as well, and also follows the English national team during international competitions. The average English fan would have at some point, to some extent, followed David Beckham's career, because he was a national football icon playing for their national football team. A good number of these English football fans would have followed and supported L.A. Galaxy because of Beckham, while still supporting Manchester United and/or the English national team which Beckham was no longer a part of.

    This is not really different from the situation of Park and Korean football fans who are now fans of QPR, but it is just amplified in the case of Park because English football fans have their own great league whereas Korean fans have a league of lesser quality. There really is nothing hard to understand about it, nor is there anything wrong with it. It may not be your way, or even the average English football fan's way, but there is a good reason for it and no one should be criticizing Korean fans about how or why they currently support QPR and Park. In converse, neither do Korean fans have the right to criticize English football fans about which clubs they support and why, but on this forum I really have not seen that happening. It's been pretty one-sided.

    Everyone certainly has a right to criticize or even blast Park about his performances, but to criticize fans of Park and more generally, Korean football fans, about their support for Park and QPR, is uncalled for, closed-minded and destructive. There is a fine line between frustration and hate, please check yourself before crossing over.

    Accept your fellow fans and your differences. You will be a better man (or woman) for it.
    Last edited by Joon; 05-12-2012, 06:51 AM.

  • #2
    Thank you Joon, you have just cleared the flog away, Nice post indeed!

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks bon. Hopefully it has some of the desired effect. :=):

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Joon View Post
        Thanks bon. Hopefully it has some of the desired effect. :=):
        Just curious if Jaejaxon is korean?

        if so I hope he could PM me if he has anything to say to me because I think the local fans don't deserve his unfriendly voice.

        I respect him very much as an individual yet, it cannot be called "fair" if he doesnt respect others in the same manner.

        this is not directed at you mate

        If you know Jaejaxon lad somehow somewhere else, I would be very happy and thankful if you could let him calm himself a bit.

        thank you again!

        Comment


        • #5
          Nah, I don't know jaejaxon either, just posting as a fellow member here.

          I know that your reply in jaejaxon's thread was not directed at me, but I think you have to balance the criticism fairly. Just as the local fans don't deserve jaejaxon's "unfriendly voice", neither do international fans deserve certain disgruntled local fans' unfriendliness. I know you are trying to get both groups to get along with each other, I think your scale tips toward the local fans a bit too much, which is what I keep disagreeing with you about. Just my opinion.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Joon View Post
            Nah, I don't know jaejaxon either, just posting as a fellow member here.

            I know that your reply in jaejaxon's thread was not directed at me, but I think you have to balance the criticism fairly. Just as the local fans don't deserve jaejaxon's "unfriendly voice", neither do international fans deserve certain disgruntled local fans' unfriendliness. I know you are trying to get both groups to get along with each other, I think your scale tips toward the local fans a bit too much, which is what I keep disagreeing with you about. Just my opinion.

            I gave you an insight to this matter on the other thread

            Agreed.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Joon View Post
              Nah, I don't know jaejaxon either, just posting as a fellow member here.

              I know that your reply in jaejaxon's thread was not directed at me, but I think you have to balance the criticism fairly. Just as the local fans don't deserve jaejaxon's "unfriendly voice", neither do international fans deserve certain disgruntled local fans' unfriendliness. I know you are trying to get both groups to get along with each other, I think your scale tips toward the local fans a bit too much, which is what I keep disagreeing with you about. Just my opinion.

              feel free to come here every week and express your voice as a Korean QPR fan.

              Your English seems far above mine, so it would be gr8 if the local fans here could hear you out

              Comment


              • #8
                Football is much more tribal in Europe. Its a concept I have a lot of trouble explaining out here in Africa when I am asked why I dont support Manchester or Arsenal or why I shout at teams who are playing against QPR etc. When you say that we, as English, naturally supported LA Galaxy when Beckham went there is not really a something that English fans will have done. We might have glanced at a news story, but so far as watch the games, buy the shirt etc etc, no, its not the way it works.I wanted him (and Owen, Mcmanaman, Barton - didnt give a toss about Jermain Pennants' stint at Zaragoza) to do well at Madrid because I believe that more english players should be playing abroad, but i cant imagine any English fans coming on forums and things like that. But the thing that is different is that we have the EPL, we dont really need to go following our players around the world because we have a great league here already which has hundreds of replacements for those who leave, so we move on and forget about them. I think what a lot of the abusers dont understand is that, with all due respect, the Korean league isn't the best league out there and so fans naturally want to watch the better leagues.

                Its the same here in Uganda. The Ugandan league is shocking, even I score goals in it! The games are on TV but no one watches them because why should they watch terrible football when the EPL is on pretty much 24/7, every single game is on television. So naturally people prefer the EPL and they follow EPL teams. I am 100% certain, that if a Ugandan signed for, say, Wigan, people would go mad for him. Now they wouldnt go on forums and such because no one has computers etc, but they would all follow Wigan (probably alongside man u or arsenal!) and want to watch their man play, mostly because they would be damn proud of him and he would be their link to success, to the 'real world'.

                Because of this I understand why people would follow one player, even though it is something that in England, we are lucky enough not to have to do. I do see where fans are coming from who seem to throw a bit of anger around the 'new' fans, and I'm pretty sure if Park left then a lot of the Korean fans would follow his new team, but it makes sense to me, and i think a lot of the vitriol from the fans over the korean fans is more to do with how badly we are playing than anything else, people have to let their frustration out. If we were sitting in the top 6 and Park had been playing well then I would imagine there would be much less 'debate' between then fans

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by hoopsididitagain View Post
                  When you say that we, as English, naturally supported LA Galaxy when Beckham went there is not really a something that English fans will have done. We might have glanced at a news story, but so far as watch the games, buy the shirt etc etc, no, its not the way it works.
                  Sorry, there was no other English player that I could think of who would better fit the example. Although the analogy is flawed due to the fundamental differences between the English and Korean football environment and its players, I think it does serve as a suitable analogy as some English fans (albeit a relatively small percentage of them compared to Park and Korean football fans) must have been drawn to L.A. Galaxy at the time.

                  I actually tried to be intentionally vague there and said "a good number" of English football fans would have started following and supporting L.A. Galaxy after Beckham's transfer, because while I'm certain there were such English fans, I have no idea exactly how many. It still seems plausible to me that Becks did draw quite a few English fans to L.A. Galaxy due to sheer star power (ok, maybe more female than male fans ), but since MLS is not at the same level as EPL, the league itself probably did not appeal to English fans as the EPL did to Korean football fans.
                  Last edited by Joon; 05-12-2012, 08:36 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Bon has been welcomed with open arms on this site. Although obviously influenced by the Park transfer he seems to be making a real go of blending in and understand the working of this forum which is most of the time fun natured. However, expect moaning, swearing, rudeness when we lose, its what football fans do because they passion gets the better of us leading to anger/frustration etc at our teams performance.

                    As for the 'fan' that was told to get out of here, in all sorts of ways (explicitly or by abuse) by me included, well, you dont describe users of this forum in that way, and indeed im sure he is having a pop at the english culture with his digs as well. So yes, he was asking for it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by NortholtRanger View Post
                      expect moaning, swearing, rudeness when we lose, its what football fans do because they passion gets the better of us leading to anger/frustration etc at our teams performance.

                      As for the 'fan' that was told to get out of here, in all sorts of ways (explicitly or by abuse) by me included, well, you dont describe users of this forum in that way, and indeed im sure he is having a pop at the english culture with his digs as well. So yes, he was asking for it.
                      I was actually speaking from experience. I was the one who was explicitly told to get out of here, and that was in response to my first post. My first post was responding to an open racist comment.

                      So, are you still quite so sure that I was "having a pop at the english culture with my digs as well"? That is a false assumption unless of course you mean that racism is ingrained within English culture -- I don't believe this is what you meant, is it?

                      You are one of many others who have posted similar solutions (suck it up) and justifications (they deserved what they got). In this case, no, I did not deserve to be told to get out of here, and no, I will not just take it lying down.

                      Bon appears to be a nice person, and he seems to be fitting in well at this forum, but it also appears that he is sometimes bending over backwards to avoid unpleasant arguments and topics, largely in an effort to bring everyone together. I have a bit more bite, and my approach to the same problem is different.

                      Moaning, swearing, rudeness, anger, frustration, all of those things you mentioned will usually not bother me too much as I've seen my share of posts through the years, but I will not accept racism nor will I just run off whenever someone tells me to go away. I will not accept xenophobia nor bigotism as a fact of life, be it on this forum or anywhere else I am present.

                      One part of your post that I did not understand is where you said "well, you don't describe users of this forum in that way". What description were you referring to? Was it about the line near the bottom where I criticized "uncalled for, closed-minded and destructive" posts?
                      Last edited by Joon; 05-12-2012, 10:32 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I was on about user jaejaxon2000, sorry should have made that clear.

                        As for racism, this isnt about the ######## comment is it?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Joon View Post
                          I was actually speaking from experience. I was the one who was explicitly told to get out of here, and that was in response to my first post. My first post was responding to an open racist comment.

                          So, are you still quite so sure that I was "having a pop at the english culture with my digs as well"? That is a false assumption unless of course you mean that racism is ingrained within English culture -- I don't believe this is what you meant, is it?

                          You are one of many others who have posted similar solutions (suck it up) and justifications (they deserved what they got). In this case, no, I did not deserve to be told to get out of here, and no, I will not just take it lying down.

                          Bon appears to be a nice person, and he seems to be fitting in well at this forum, but it also appears that he is sometimes bending over backwards to avoid unpleasant arguments and topics, largely in an effort to bring everyone together. I have a bit more bite, and my approach to the same problem is different.

                          Moaning, swearing, rudeness, anger, frustration, all of those things you mentioned will usually not bother me too much as I've seen my share of posts through the years, but I will not accept racism nor will I just run off whenever someone tells me to go away. I will not accept xenophobia nor bigotism as a fact of life, be it on this forum or anywhere else I am present.

                          One part of your post that I did not understand is where you said "well, you don't describe users of this forum in that way". What description were you referring to? Was it about the line near the bottom where I criticized "uncalled for, closed-minded and destructive" posts?
                          The fans that now "support" QPR that are the same fans that "supported" Man Utd when Park was there are the fans referred to as supporting an individual and not a team. I couldnt give a toss about L.A. Galaxy, why would i? proper football fans support the club for life no matter whether a certain individual leaves and goes somewhere else. I have no problem with Koreans attending games as it brings money into the club, got no problem seeing them at the ground in their shirts with Park on the back (although the few ive seen in Man Utd shirts are looking for trouble). Think Bon is a nice lad and like Northolt said has tried hard to blend in. As for "racism ingrained in English culture" i think you are wrong by a long way.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NortholtRanger View Post
                            I was on about user jaejaxon2000, sorry should have made that clear.

                            As for racism, this isnt about the ######## comment is it?
                            Cant be mate...it is in no way racist to say that Park is a dogsh1t footballer.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by vblockranger View Post
                              Cant be mate...it is in no way racist to say that Park is a dogsh1t footballer.
                              Exactly mate. Im just wondering if thats what he is basing his accusation on as I havnt seen anything that would be classed as racism on this site for a long time.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X