Is an England flag with QPR written on it offensive ?

[QPR Richard]

Keep Britain Tidy, Carers UK and Age UK have hidden agendas to destroy England. This goes deeper than we thought......

Why do you think it is happening? (Please do not take that question as any kind of acceptance that this is actually happening?)

What do you propose be done about it, and by who?

I didn't say organisations like Care UK etc have hidden agendas to destroy England, but when you look at their areas of operation, they're only in England, so why call themselves British, UK etc? It is all part of a grand plan to make the English believe they're British. Sounds daft? Listen to the majority of politicians when they discuss a policy about England. They use the term 'Britain', making us all think the policy in question is Britain-wide.

Here's something for you to ponder. Why is is that all British politicians were allowed to vote on the Higher Education Act introducing tuition fees only in England, yet wasn't applied to the whole of Britain? The representatives of the people of Scotland and Wales got to vote on tuition fees for England, yet English representatives have no say in theirs. Why is it that only the English pay prescription charges yet they're free elsewhere?

If we don't stand up for England, then expect our country to disappear. Labour is already planning a Northern parliament which will further divide our country.

[DeepcutHoop]

Again you say that these groups use the British or UK name, as part of a 'grand plan', as if there's an agenda that is being pushed on them. Who by? Why are they trying to destroy England? Are all the politicians in on this? If so, it seems odd that all politicians are in on it, is there a greater organisation above the politicians organising this? For what end?

You also keep saying that something needs to be done, and we need to stand up. But what are you suggesting be done about it?

Any evidence for a Northern Parliament planned by Labour? Sounds interesting.

And as for it all sounding daft? Yes. Yes it does.

[QPR Richard]

Again you say that these groups use the British or UK name, as part of a 'grand plan', as if there's an agenda that is being pushed on them. Who by? Why are they trying to destroy England? Are all the politicians in on this? If so, it seems odd that all politicians are in on it, is there a greater organisation above the politicians organising this? For what end?

You also keep saying that something needs to be done, and we need to stand up. But what are you suggesting be done about it?

Any evidence for a Northern Parliament planned by Labour? Sounds interesting.

And as for it all sounding daft? Yes. Yes it does.

It's all here:

http://www.thecep.org.uk/

[DeepcutHoop]

It's all here:

http://www.thecep.org.uk/

From Wiki:

Some members of the CEP were instrumental in the formation of the English Democrats Party in 2002.

I'm out.

There may be some cogent points on that site, and some questions regarding the aftermath of Devolution. It may even make sense to have an English Parliament, only making decisions for places they are accountable for. Fair enough, that's an interesting discussion, and good luck to them making this something that people consider. People should think about this kind of thing.

But it's all tainted by the ridiculous paranoia that Englad is under attack or in danger of disappearing, or that the English are second-class citizens. It's nonsense, and they will struggle to get much support while they have close links to groups like the English Democrats and their associates.

[QPR Richard]

From Wiki:


I'm out.

There may be some cogent points on that site, and some questions regarding the aftermath of Devolution. It may even make sense to have an English Parliament, only making decisions for places they are accountable for. Fair enough, that's an interesting discussion, and good luck to them making this something that people consider. People should think about this kind of thing.

But it's all tainted by the ridiculous paranoia that Englad is under attack or in danger of disappearing, or that the English are second-class citizens. It's nonsense, and they will struggle to get much support while they have close links to groups like the English Democrats and their associates.

Hmm....the English not second-class citizens? Well please explain why the English pay tuition fees but the Scots don't. Please explain why the English pay prescription fees and the rest don't. Please explain why the English pay elderly care but the Scots don't. Please explain why the English are the only nation in Europe that doesn't have a national parliament or assembly. Please explain why Scottish Welsh and Northern Irish MPs can vote on English-only legislation yet English MPs cannot vote on theirs. Please explain why Scottish MPs like Danny Alexander voted to sell off England's forests yet campaigned to protect Scotland's.

As for the English Democrats, what started off as a good, idealistic party, has turned into a shambles. You'll find the CEP is not aligned with any political party but works with political parties to further their aims. To give you an example, Simon Hughes (Lib Dem) filled in for Frank Field (Labour) when Mr Field was taken ill, and gave an address to a CEP AGM. THe English Parliament concept has cross-party support, and worked with UKIP to produce their current devolution policy.

You might not think England is facing pressure, but consider that the Tories are planning to merge Sport England with UK Sport, seeing the disappearance of an English institution, while the other home nations keep theirs.

We've moved from banning the COSG at LR to a political debate on England

Seriously though, the threats to England and her institutions are more real than you might think. I gave an example earlier about former QPR player Martin Allen, when, manager of Brentford, wanted the COSG banned from the ground because he considered it a racist symbol.

Edit: we has this conversation earlier in the year:

http://www.wearetherangersboys.com/forum/showthread.php?130415-Martin-Allen-gone-right-down-in-my-opinion-of-him

[DeepcutHoop]

I missed the Martin Allen discussion, sadly, but the points I would have made were made by others. I don't thik the flag is necessarily racist, but it is an odd thing to be displaying at a football match. Not the flag, but the slogan.

The problem as I said early on, is that the public perception of the England flag, especially at football games (and especially those with defiant statements on, apropos of nothing) is that they are associated with groups of people that they are uncomfortable with at best.

While there are idiots like this marching through the streets under (or behind) the England flag, it will never be a 100% positive symbol. The positive England connotations always get tainted by the nastiness and aggression.



Which is a real shame. Britain got firmly behind the flag at the Olympics, hell I even cheered for Andy Murray. It would be nice to see the England flag associated with such positive emotions.

And as I also said before, I don't see that being an easy job.

Edit : And before we forget....

Has anyone heard from the club on this subject yet?

[QPR Richard]

It's some of the right-wing fringe groups giving England and the flag a bad name sadly. I've heard of cases where cabbies have been asked to remove the COSG in case it offends anyone. It usually happens during major football tournaments, apparently so as not to upset some Muslims who might take offence because of the association of the flag with the Crusades. As far as I know, Muslims don't usually complain, it's the bloody do-gooders who THINK they might be offended.

And you'd never see me cheering on Andy 'anyone but England' Murray!

[DeepcutHoop]

It's some of the right-wing fringe groups giving England and the flag a bad name sadly. I've heard of cases where cabbies have been asked to remove the COSG in case it offends anyone. It usually happens during major football tournaments, apparently so as not to upset some Muslims who might take offence because of the association of the flag with the Crusades. As far as I know, Muslims don't usually complain, it's the bloody do-gooders who THINK they might be offended.

And you'd never see me cheering on Andy 'anyone but England' Murray!

The amount of vehicles that do fly the flag during these tournaments, suggest that the cases you refer to are very rare.

And that's the point really. The occurrences that get referred to as evidence for this persecution of the English are few and far between and usually involve over-officious people, as you say, worrying about other people being offended (usually with the best of intentions) or there's more to the story than we hear.

There is definitely not a concerted conspiracy to destroy England, one cab aerial flag at a time. Nor one football flag at a time.