What i don't understand is..

[Shepherds Mush]

But you have to understand, we as a fanbase have to be critical of the club all the time even when the criticism isn't there. Is that not obvious?

Of course, my apologies !

[West Acton]

In addition, Paul Clement and Darren Wassall had never managed in the Championship and where are Derby?

What Paul Clement who so Many on this board were tugging off too now they have gone very quiet about him. Can't be having him mate was never convinced

There are like you suggest plenty example of managers cutting it with next to no experience Dagliesh most notable

[Yousef]

I am not going to judge JFH now. let him prepare for next season see how he does by November 2016.

[FACTS]

It's a confidence thing too. Philips is one of our best players. Who cares if he's gone next season, we don't want to end on a run of losses.

For what it's worth I could see Philips staying here next year. A lot of Premiership sides have wised up to the fact that there is better quality abroad, and with the new TV deal everyone has the cash to spend on players who are better than Philips.

[nasser95]

It's a confidence thing too. Philips is one of our best players. Who cares if he's gone next season, we don't want to end on a run of losses.

For what it's worth I could see Philips staying here next year. A lot of Premiership sides have wised up to the fact that there is better quality abroad, and with the new TV deal everyone has the cash to spend on players who are better than Philips.

For me, keep him if he is willing to sign a new contract. When motivated, he can really do amazing things at this level. His output without significant input is a testament to that potential. Otherwise, I do think we should try and offload.

[hal9thou]

What total rubbish. Eddie Howe has no previous experience at prem level but is doing ok Redknapp had tons and flopped

Total mute point you make

But Eddie Howe got Bournemouth into the championship in the first place. JFH had no such achievement at hand. I actually bothered looking at his career management stats pre Rs and they were good but not outstanding, and achieved at a lower level.

Secondly the vast majority of managers who have achieved promotion into the top flight have had more than half a seasons experience at the level below. And yet Jimmy was expected to get us up, remember what the club said at the time.

So far from being rubbish, all of the above are simple statements of fact. You rightly mention Redknapp critically - which supports the point about a string of poor appointments. Always good to engage the brain.....

[nasser95]

But Eddie Howe got Bournemouth into the championship in the first place. JFH had no such achievement at hand. I actually bothered looking at his career management stats pre Rs and they were good but not outstanding, and achieved at a lower level.

Secondly the vast majority of managers who have achieved promotion into the top flight have had more than half a seasons experience at the level below. And yet Jimmy was expected to get us up, remember what the club said at the time.

So far from being rubbish, all of the above are simple statements of fact. You rightly mention Redknapp critically - which supports the point about a string of poor appointments. Always good to engage the brain.....

That's a bit ridiculous, you realise that had he stayed at Burton, they were going to get into the championship with almost no resources. A 61% win record (I recall it being the best in the country at a point) is not outstanding to you? Taking a team that had weren't looking like promotion candidates and then winning the league in his first season, then taking them to the top of the division above in his next season, but that's only good to you, not outstanding?

Your point is moot for sure, and you're turning his redknapp point - an extremely valid one that disproves your point - and turning it into your anti board argument. Bit ridiculous IMO.

[hal9thou]

That's a bit ridiculous, you realise that had he stayed at Burton, they were going to get into the championship with almost no resources. A 61% win record (I recall it being the best in the country at a point) is not outstanding to you? Taking a team that had weren't looking like promotion candidates and then winning the league in his first season, then taking them to the top of the division above in his next season, but that's only good to you, not outstanding?

Your point is moot for sure, and you're turning his redknapp point - an extremely valid one that disproves your point - and turning it into your anti board argument. Bit ridiculous IMO.

Actually Nas you're stats are unreliable. You are not including his results as a manager in Holland. They have to be included. Selectivity is not the way to go for a stats man.

My problem is not with Jimmy or Les, per se though neither should be in post imo. My problem is with the quality of appointments made - yes, including Harry - and for that the buck has to stop at the top.

Like I said when Uncle Tone turned up, success in business is no guarantee whatsoever of success in football.

[nasser95]

Actually Nas you're stats are unreliable. You are not including his results as a manager in Holland. They have to be included. Selectivity is not the way to go for a stats man.

My problem is not with Jimmy or Les, per se though neither should be in post imo. My problem is with the quality of appointments made - yes, including Harry - and for that the buck has to stop at the top.

Like I said when Uncle Tone turned up, success in business is no guarantee whatsoever of success in football.

I think your information is totally unreliable given that he never managed in Holland...
Secondly, you go with the most related information, his time managing in England is 1) more recent and more reliable as a judgement of his abilities, 2) more related to managing us. If you ask him what experience is most closely resembling the style of play he's going with now, he'd say his time at Burton. His style of play was very similar at Burton. When you hire a manager, you look at his latest work as the key basis of hiring, followed by his earlier work. When the difference is as night and day as it was in this case, he's obviously shown improvement as a manager since leaving Belgium.

So I'm guessing your appointments would have followed the model the club is aiming to achieve of developing Longevity right? Hiring people like NW who no matter how great a manager he is, will need replacing even if he took us up. Maybe hiring Pearson too would have been the option but no doubt he would have done something controversial and get a deserved sacking for it. Or go with the guy who wants to prove himself, has shown signs of being a talented at a lower level and wants to succeed long term with this club.

[Ramsey is god]

Thought he did manage a Belgium / Dutch (cant remember which) team before Burton. He signed John Bostock, i remember that much!

Nas, why always so defensive whenever anyone questions your opinion? Think me and you actually have very similar thoughts on us and how patience is needed, but getting so defensive in every post over your stats is becoming tiresome.

[nasser95]

Thought he did manage a Belgium / Dutch (cant remember which) team before Burton. He signed John Bostock, i remember that much!

Nas, why always so defensive whenever anyone questions your opinion? Think me and you actually have very similar thoughts on us and how patience is needed, but getting so defensive in every post over your stats is becoming tiresome.

Rig if I've come across overly defensive, I apologise, didn't want to and don't actually feel that defensive. My thing is that everyone is allowed their opinion and that's fine obviously, it's more than fine, it's necessary. But then if I say something about a belief I have, I'm going to back up my opinion. It may seem defensive, but it's just me putting out facts to back up my points, especially since a lot of the time, it differs from other people.

Don't want to or mean to come across as tiresome and will try and cut down mate, but it also gets boring for me every time people keep assuming that I only look at stats, when I constantly say that I watch every game once if not twice (especially home games since I go to them) and then I also look at the stats. If someone questions my points, that's absolutely fine, it's a key part of this forum, but then I'll also come back. It's what happens mate, it's debating.

[Stanley]

I think your information is totally unreliable given that he never managed in Holland...

Obviously he meant Belgium.

[nasser95]

Obviously he meant Belgium.

I have no doubt about that, but if he's going to nitpick a point based on the fact that I didn't include a very respectable tally for JFH in Belgium for antwerp, I'm going to make a bit of a joke hahe. In any case, his record at Antwerp was decent and his signings were positive, so they offered him a new deal which he turned down because he had bigger ambitions, so he went from Belgian second division, took six months off and went to work for Burton, where he truly excelled. In all honesty, I just think it's harsh to call out either he or Les given the work they've done to ensure the future of the club is positive. But it's his opinion and that's fair, I just question it myself. I'd like to understand the view as to why someone who's successful in the country we're in, on a shoestring budget, playing the sort of football that can succeed at all levels and making some really positive signings and movements for the club in the time he's been here could be considered a person who shouldn't be in the job.

[Stanley]

I have no doubt about that, but if he's going to nitpick a point based on the fact that I didn't include a very respectable tally for JFH in Belgium for antwerp, I'm going to make a bit of a joke hahe. In any case, his record at Antwerp was decent and his signings were positive, so they offered him a new deal which he turned down because he had bigger ambitions, so he went from Belgian second division, took six months off and went to work for Burton, where he truly excelled.

Fair points Nass.

[hal9thou]

Fair points Nass.

I beg to differ.

If you label yourself as a stats man, you can not be selective. So let's turn this around. If things don't work out with JFH would you extend his contract? lets say we're in exactly the same spot this time next term and no cup run to speak of - how long would you persevere?

And more importantly, given those circs, what would your position be on Les?

Also, why would it have been a problem replacing Warnock had he got us up? He doesn't want to work in the EPL and promotion would have opened up the job to some decent candidates.