Long way to go before resolution

[robloft]

If people think that Flavio will take this lying down without taking legal action against the FIA then think again.

They have effectively restricted his trade as an agent by their wording that nobody associated with him will be welcome to compete I seem to recall from my legal studies that the European courts take a dim view on restriction of trade !!!

The FIA may have shot themselves in the foot by making Flavios ban open ended rather than a specific number of years.

[Gtleighsr3]

quick mail him,and give him the sp.

[robloft]

quick mail him,and give him the sp.

What ?

[Robbo]

If people think that Flavio will take this lying down without taking legal action against the FIA then think again.

They have effectively restricted his trade as an agent by their wording that nobody associated with him will be welcome to compete I seem to recall from my legal studies that the European courts take a dim view on restriction of trade !!!

The FIA may have shot themselves in the foot by making Flavios ban open ended rather than a specific number of years.

Well I've only got a CSE in maths, and making ashtrays out of clay, but it's all guesswork again.

There is the possibilty that he might find some legal loophole to get back into F1... but he'd still be a branded cheat, and would be about as welcome as a pork chop in a synagogue. He's knocking on a bit now, pushing 60.
Maybe he should just accept it, and move on, relax and eat fine food, sh*g, and work on losing the man-#####?

[paulmason]

If people think that Flavio will take this lying down without taking legal action against the FIA then think again.

They have effectively restricted his trade as an agent by their wording that nobody associated with him will be welcome to compete I seem to recall from my legal studies that the European courts take a dim view on restriction of trade !!!

The FIA may have shot themselves in the foot by making Flavios ban open ended rather than a specific number of years.

Flavio has broken FIA laws and has been banned from any involvement in FIA sanctioned events, the fact he is an agent is neither here or there and he knew the rules and chose to break them, so tough bloody luck.

[Bluehoop]

If people think that Flavio will take this lying down without taking legal action against the FIA then think again.

They have effectively restricted his trade as an agent by their wording that nobody associated with him will be welcome to compete I seem to recall from my legal studies that the European courts take a dim view on restriction of trade !!!

The FIA may have shot themselves in the foot by making Flavios ban open ended rather than a specific number of years.

Restriction of trade is defined to be a reasonable step where the restricted party is said to have acted outside the law. The moot point is whether FB has acted outside the law as the FIA has it's own regulations which are set and controlled by their own governing body.
We don't yet know how this thing will pan out - but there is potential for this to become a legal issue - though of course that would be seperate to the contractual issue which concerns restriction of trade.

I think the point is the FIA have banned him from being involved in their own competitions, as regulated by them. The ban doesn't prevent him from, for example, setting up his own motor racing competition and creating his own governing body - not that that is going to happen - but if you follow my drift, he is not banned per se so much as expelled from any FIA regulated events/their competitors etc as he has breached their regs. So he is restricted only so far as the FIA is concerned but not precluded from setting up in competition!!

[baz]

Restriction of trade is defined to be a reasonable step where the restricted party is said to have acted outside the law. The moot point is whether FB has acted outside the law as the FIA has it's own regulations which are set and controlled by their own governing body.
We don't yet know how this thing will pan out - but there is potential for this to become a legal issue - though of course that would be seperate to the contractual issue which concerns restriction of trade.

I think the point is the FIA have banned him from being involved in their own competitions, as regulated by them. The ban doesn't prevent him from, for example, setting up his own motor racing competition and creating his own governing body - not that that is going to happen - but if you follow my drift, he is not banned per se so much as expelled from any FIA regulated events/their competitors etc as he has breached their regs. So he is restricted only so far as the FIA is concerned but not precluded from setting up in competition!!

Flavio's legal route is that this was a hearing for Renault for whom he is no longer employed, he will surely argue that the corporation acted in its own self interested and the sanctions imposed upon him have been done so without any due process or the ability to defend or represent himself and for political reasons. I have no doubt that Flavio will not return to F1 but it is the cross effect and the existing contractual obligations as an agent that will give him the legal recourse.

Now whatever you think of him, however guilty you think he is. I cannot see this ruling standing up to any legal test whatsoever because it has not been subjected to any fair and reasonable due process. Its almost as if the FIA bodged it deliberatley :devil:

[Bluehoop]

Flavio's legal route is that this was a hearing for Renault for whom he is no longer employed, he will surely argue that the corporation acted in its own self interested and the sanctions imposed upon him have been done so without any due process or the ability to defend or represent himself and for political reasons. I have no doubt that Flavio will not return to F1 but it is the cross effect and the existing contractual obligations as an agent that will give him the legal recourse.

Now whatever you think of him, however guilty you think he is. I cannot see this ruling standing up to any legal test whatsoever because it has not been subjected to any fair and reasonable due process. Its almost as if the FIA bodged it deliberatley :devil:

Pretty much agree with you there, but didn't he resign and state he would not be defending the allegations, thus waiving his right to an audience after the event?
The legal test should never become relevant as the FIA decision is not legally binding and merely precludes him from acting within their domain, albeit that it pretty much destroys him as all motor sport seems to come within their jurisdiction?

[paulmason]

Flavio's legal route is that this was a hearing for Renault for whom he is no longer employed, he will surely argue that the corporation acted in its own self interested and the sanctions imposed upon him have been done so without any due process or the ability to defend or represent himself and for political reasons. I have no doubt that Flavio will not return to F1 but it is the cross effect and the existing contractual obligations as an agent that will give him the legal recourse.

Now whatever you think of him, however guilty you think he is. I cannot see this ruling standing up to any legal test whatsoever because it has not been subjected to any fair and reasonable due process. Its almost as if the FIA bodged it deliberatley :devil:

It does not need to stand up to a legal test because the test stipulates that an owner, prospective owner or director of a club should not be "subject to a ban from a sports governing body relating to the administration of their sport".

That's the FIA and not Judge Deed.

[baz]

No sports authority can operate a ban without due process, and the right for an individual to mount a defence. This has not happened and the FIA ruling will not stand up to any legal scrutiny for that reason. Which is why if he does challange it the FL cannot do anything but wait for the outcome of that challange

[Robbo]

So let's say he goes through the courts, and gets his ban declared illegal... I don't think that'll happen, but if it does...

Great, that'll add even more to the circus that surrounds us, drag this whole sorry mess on through the courts for months, and keep all the instability and uncertainty going on for god knows how long.

Then there is the question: Who the f*** is going to give him a job in F1?? ...just because he's found some legal loophole, but is still branded a convicted cheat by the governing body of that sport?

Not a great prospect is it?

[baz]

No its not but that is the most likely course of events

[Robbo]

So instead of spending 90% of his time playing with cars, he can spend it in solicitors offices, and courtrooms... because his ego can't handle being told what to do by anyone. Even when he is wrong.

Which, whether people agree or not... is exactly the reason so many people don't want him around.. at QPR, or F1.

The man refuses to admit mistakes, listen, learn or show much dignity.
That's just my point of view though.


But I still think this is all speculation, and that everyone actually concerned are keeping their heads low, just exploring options, and weighing them up.

[Bluehoop]

So instead of spending 90% of his time playing with cars, he can spend it in solicitors offices, and courtrooms... because his ego can't handle being told what to do by anyone. Even when he is wrong.

Which, whether people agree or not... is exactly the reason so many people don't want him around.. at QPR, or F1.

The man refuses to admit mistakes, listen, learn or show much dignity.
That's just my point of view though.


But I still think this is all speculation, and that everyone actually concerned are keeping their heads low, just exploring options, and weighing them up.

I very much suspect all this happened before he decided to resign and not challenge the allegations - no doubt his lawyers have come up with a plan or advised him this was the best way out in terms of damage limitation.

[Robbo]

I very much suspect all this happened before he decided to resign and not challenge the allegations - no doubt his lawyers have come up with a plan or advised him this was the best way out in terms of damage limitation.

True, but I don't think he's the only one with expensive lawyers, that anticipate things.
The FIA, The Football League, and others (maybe involved at QPR) are also full of extremely professional and successful people who are no mugs when it comes to knowing the law, and the loopholes/appeal processes that can arise.

Lord Mawhinney was a former Shadow Home Secretary, and Secretary of State for Transport and Health.
Not a mug.

FB doesn't have a global monopoly on being cute or ruthless when it comes to legal issues.