Very Basic Sums - Part 3

[sirpiechucker]

Since the summer of 2007, QPR have signed either permanently or on loan 39 players (see this thread for more details: http://www.wearetherangersboys.com/f...ad.php?t=44334) over the same period of time Burnley have signed just 25 players:

Andre Bikey
Andy Cole
Brian Easton
Chris Eagles
Christian Kalvenes
Clarke Carlisle
Dave Nugent
David Edgar
David Unsworth
Diego Penny
Fernando Guerrero
Graham Alexander
Joe Mckee
Kevin McDonald
Mark Randall
Martin Paterson
Rhys Williams
Richard Eckersley
Robbie Blake
Russell Anderson
Stanislav Varga
Stephen Jordan
Steven Fletcher
Steven Thompson
Tyrone Mears

Like our 39 players some of the names above are loans and some of them are permanent deals (for example Russell Anderson was on loan from Sunderland and played just 4 games until he ruptured his ACL). Their 25 players also include all the players they have signed to try and keep themselves in the Premiership. Although Coyle will officially leave today he is only their 3rd manager (including 1 caretaker boss) in the same time period. Of the 25 players only 5 were signed under a different manager than Coyle (Steve Cotterill if you are really that interested to know who). Meaning that over the same time period they have had 2 managers, 1 caretaker and have signed 25 players of which 9 of them were this season to obtain promotion and go on to beat sides like Manchester United and Everton.

From July 2007 to July 2009, Burnley had appointed just 1 permanent manager, signed just 16 players and have obtain promotion to the Premiership.

From July 2007 to July 2009, QPR had appointed 4 permanent managers (De Canio, Dowie, Sousa and Magilton), signed 31 players and have failed to gain promotion.

If you really want to put that into context:

QPR - 2008/09 Championship Season:
Highest Gate 17120 Reading
Lowest Gate 12286 Charlton Athletic
Average Attendance 14090
Aggregate Attendance 324078
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team/st...2&seasontype=1

Burnley - 2008/09 Championship Season:
Highest Gate 18005 Bristol City
Lowest Gate 10032 Plymouth Argyle
Average Attendance 13082
Aggregate Attendance 300886

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team/st...2&seasontype=1

Over the season Burnley averaged 1008 fewer fans per match and over the 23 match season they had 23,192 fewer fans through the turnstiles than we did.

Smaller fanbase than us meaning smaller gate generated income than us and owned by a poorer owner than us. And before anyone says but did they actually spend any money they twice broke their transfer record last summer firstly bringing Chris Eagles to the club £1.2m, then Martin Paterson for £1.35m. So rather than spending £400k on Alberti plus signing on fees for players like Ledesma, Parejo, Cerny, De Carmine and Ramage they went out and spent money on quality players. Paterson had scored 14 the previous season for Scunny in this division (more goals in one season than Agyemang has ever achieved in a single season and Paterson is younger by 7 years) and Eagles, which was seen as a coup for Burnley because the only reason he was being kept out of the Manchester United team was Cristiano Ronaldo. No surprise he went onto impress for them scoring a number of goals and assists.

[terry ball]

Since the summer of 2007, QPR have signed either permanently or on loan 39 players (see this thread for more details: http://www.wearetherangersboys.com/f...ad.php?t=44334) over the same period of time Burnley have signed just 25 players:

Andre Bikey
Andy Cole
Brian Easton
Chris Eagles
Christian Kalvenes
Clarke Carlisle
Dave Nugent
David Edgar
David Unsworth
Diego Penny
Fernando Guerrero
Graham Alexander
Joe Mckee
Kevin McDonald
Mark Randall
Martin Paterson
Rhys Williams
Richard Eckersley
Robbie Blake
Russell Anderson
Stanislav Varga
Stephen Jordan
Steven Fletcher
Steven Thompson
Tyrone Mears

Like our 39 players some of the names above are loans and some of them are permanent deals (for example Russell Anderson was on loan from Sunderland and played just 4 games until he ruptured his ACL). Their 25 players also include all the players they have signed to try and keep themselves in the Premiership. Although Coyle will officially leave today he is only their 3rd manager (including 1 caretaker boss) in the same time period. Of the 25 players only 5 were signed under a different manager than Coyle (Steve Cotterill if you are really that interested to know who). Meaning that over the same time period they have had 2 managers, 1 caretaker and have signed 25 players of which 9 of them were this season to obtain promotion and go on to beat sides like Manchester United and Everton.

From July 2007 to July 2009, Burnley had appointed just 1 permanent manager, signed just 16 players and have obtain promotion to the Premiership.

From July 2007 to July 2009, QPR had appointed 4 permanent managers (De Canio, Dowie, Sousa and Magilton), signed 31 players and have failed to gain promotion.

If you really want to put that into context:

QPR - 2008/09 Championship Season:
Highest Gate 17120 Reading
Lowest Gate 12286 Charlton Athletic
Average Attendance 14090
Aggregate Attendance 324078
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team/st...2&seasontype=1

Burnley - 2008/09 Championship Season:
Highest Gate 18005 Bristol City
Lowest Gate 10032 Plymouth Argyle
Average Attendance 13082
Aggregate Attendance 300886

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team/st...2&seasontype=1

Over the season Burnley averaged 1008 fewer fans per match and over the 23 match season they had 23,192 fewer fans through the turnstiles than we did.

Smaller fanbase than us meaning smaller gate generated income than us and owned by a poorer owner than us. And before anyone says but did they actually spend any money they twice broke their transfer record last summer firstly bringing Chris Eagles to the club £1.2m, then Martin Paterson for £1.35m. So rather than spending £400k on Alberti plus signing on fees for players like Ledesma, Parejo, Cerny, De Carmine and Ramage they went out and spent money on quality players. Paterson had scored 14 the previous season for Scunny in this division (more goals in one season than Agyemang has ever achieved in a single season and Paterson is younger by 7 years) and Eagles, which was seen as a coup for Burnley because the only reason he was being kept out of the Manchester United team was Cristiano Ronaldo. No surprise he went onto impress for them scoring a number of goals and assists.

great analysis sirpie. It's research and facts like this that are not only worth reading, but also can prove a point. It's a shame the "rim club" can't go to the same depths (pardon the pun)

[W12_Ranger]

I think you have eloquently made your point now SPC....in the best possible way might I add.

I share your anguish at watching this club waste money on players handing it out long term well paid contracts to players who don't warrant them like sweets.

Some fans bitter at the Board for raising ST prices will always cite that as the reason behind the disjointed angry fanbase but I cite the mismanagement of our transfer dealings as the cause.

If we the fans could see the progress on the pitch I'm sure the ill feeling about price hikes would dissipate as we could see our club moving forward. This is why I largely point the finger of blame at Paladini, Briatores interference in my opinion comes of the back of bad advise he is given on transfers and managers....lets be fair, the times when Briatore is alleged to have interfered have mirrored the most frustating times for us the supporters as well.

Everything is a short term fix with QPR there is no long term planning when it comes to the football side of things. We have not progress IMO since Jan 2008, which is when this all began!

[bushcelt1]

i think you have eloquently made your point now spc....in the best possible way might i add.

I share your anguish at watching this club waste money on players handing it out long term well paid contracts to players who don't warrant them like sweets.

Some fans bitter at the board for raising st prices will always cite that as the reason behind the disjointed angry fanbase but i cite the mismanagement of our transfer dealings as the cause.

If we the fans could see the progress on the pitch i'm sure the ill feeling about price hikes would dissipate as we could see our club moving forward. This is why i largely point the finger of blame at paladini, briatores interference in my opinion comes of the back of bad advise he is given on transfers and managers....lets be fair, the times when briatore is alleged to have interfered have mirrored the most frustating times for us the supporters as well.

Everything is a short term fix with qpr there is no long term planning when it comes to the football side of things. We have not progress imo since jan 2008, which is when this all began!

spot on my man...and big one to sir pie...brutal reality!!

[sirpiechucker]

I think you have eloquently made your point now SPC....in the best possible way might I add.

I share your anguish at watching this club waste money on players handing it out long term well paid contracts to players who don't warrant them like sweets.

Some fans bitter at the Board for raising ST prices will always cite that as the reason behind the disjointed angry fanbase but I cite the mismanagement of our transfer dealings as the cause.

If we the fans could see the progress on the pitch I'm sure the ill feeling about price hikes would dissipate as we could see our club moving forward. This is why I largely point the finger of blame at Paladini, Briatores interference in my opinion comes of the back of bad advise he is given on transfers and managers....lets be fair, the times when Briatore is alleged to have interfered have mirrored the most frustating times for us the supporters as well.

Everything is a short term fix with QPR there is no long term planning when it comes to the football side of things. We have not progress IMO since Jan 2008, which is when this all began!

Thanks w12ranger.

I don't like having to state the bleeding obvious because it gives me no pleasure whatsoever. I know just like you that we've invested time and time again (39 times to be accurate) since the takeover and we are still playing Championship football whereas a team with a smaller income have overtaken us and are playing at a level we should be playing at.

Using Pete's maths from his Very Basic Sums thread means that if the average ticket price is £25 we've generated through ticket sales alone a further £500k more than Burnley (23,192 x £25). If the average fan spends a further couple of quid each at the ground that is another £50k we've generated as well by just getting the fans through the turnstiles. We already know that our sponsorship deals are much greater than theirs so how come with less money and less fans are they a Premiership team and we are not?

[Mr Lofty]

This has to be the post I have ever read. Not because of witty writing or passionate views but because it displays everything we are not and is everything we should become. A proper football club with good staff and strong business plan.

Pete - I treat you with high regard as this is your website and we all enjoy being part of it. I also recognise your obvious care and love for the club. However this post actually dispells virtually everything you have spouted and stood for. One of your main gripes is that supporters want more than a club our size can give. We want players costing millions and should realise we have to pay for it etc etc. Wrong. All we want is what has happened at a club like Burnley. Good players, good manager, good planning. It is not our responsibility to employ the right people so stop blaming the supporters for anything.

As far as this website is concerned I feel it is a little bit of a watershed tonight. I thank you SPC, arise sir.

[deepseahoop]

Think you've all missed the point that we're talking about football and you can't predict the outcome.. 1+1 doesn't always equal 2 thats the fun. Be a bit boring if you always beat the teams below you and lost to the ones above. But them who an i to get in the way of a good moan!

[rblockells]

sorry mate

1 plus 1 does ALWAYS equal 2

[W12_Ranger]

sorry mate

1 plus 1 does ALWAYS equal 2

He must have went to Hammersmith / Chistopher Wren School

[haqpr1963]

As always SPC an excellent post backed up by well researched facts (some posters please take note.)

[qblockpete]

Every club in the championship wants to be a Burnley.

Reality is they are a small club, Coyle has left them and I'm guessing it won't be long before they a mediocre championship club again.

As regards a positive for Burnley sure they offered season ticket holders free season tickets if they reached the premiership, maybe we should be offering the same incentive??

[Mr Lofty]

Fair point but please realise if they can do this on a shoestring look what we should be capable of. The wonderful position our club is in now should be that when we reach the promised land we should have the backing to stay there.

It makes it all the more painful we are being run as we are now. It's not wonderful at the momment and it's a poor show.

Why cant QPR operate a similar plan to Burnley instead of seemingly the opposite?

[Stanley]

I largely point the finger of blame at Paladini, Briatores interference in my opinion comes of the back of bad advise he is given on transfers and managers....lets be fair, the times when Briatore is alleged to have interfered have mirrored the most frustating times for us the supporters as well.

But who has employed Paladini?

Is it Paladini's fault that a footballing ignoramus gave him the job of sporting director?

Did he give him the job just because he is a fellow compatriot (along with all the other flop Italian/Latin footballers he brought in)?

And if the advice Paladini has been supplying him has been so consistantly and evidently woeful, at what point do you begin to doubt/question the opinions of those you have so prudently employed?

For far less money he could have had his brains tested.

[W12_Ranger]

But who has employed Paladini?

Is it Paladini's fault that a footballing ignoramus gave him the job of sporting director?

Did he give him the job just because he is a fellow compatriot (along with all the other flop Italian/Latin footballers he brought in)?

And if the advice Paladini has been supplying him has been so consistantly and evidently woeful, at what point do you begin to doubt/question the opinions of those you have so prudently employed?

For far less money he could have had his brains tested.

I totally agree and FB, BE & AB are all accountable not just FB.

That point in time where you begin to doubt/question the opinions of those you have so prudently employed for me should have come in the summer but with Flavs Court Case now over I'd would expect that time to arrive now.

The likes of Paladini has a run out of excuses, Briatore tried to involve himself to much last year so maybe he feels he must shoulder a lot of the blame for some of the flops brought to the club (and so he should) but with him clearly keeping his nose out of team affairs this season we are still going backwards....there is no question in my mind that he has put blind faith in Paladinis decisons throughout his time here and many others agree with this.

[Balders1967]

Burnley did have the luxury of £750'000 for the Premiership/Sky deal before the gates even opened, however you make a good argument about how our club is being run.

In my mind, too many loanees and not enough 'Bircham-esque' players who are proud and fully committed in playing the R's.