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  • Striking Facts

    Those who have read my posts over the past couple of years will know that I deal with facts and not matters of opinion when it comes to a differing of opinion. Therefore I wanted to write a new thread based on a subject that qprsteve had started yesterday to point out a few things.

    Firstly, we are a Championship club but we have been able to attract 5 premiership players to play for us this season (6 if you include Heaton). So although we play our football at a lower level we are able to sign players from a higher level of football. The loan window is still open and we have taken advantage of this only last week by signing a midfielder and a goal keeper from the Premiership.

    If you were to run a poll and ask people regardless of whom we pick would they like to see 1 or 2 strikers start a match for us a very high majority would always say 2 strikers. This means that good players will miss out but that is squad football. Taraabt missed out on Saturday because JM decided to pick Reid and Watson instead. If Taraabt had started then one of these players (or Faurlin) would have missed out. We can only pick 11 players and we look like always picking 4 defenders meaning that one of our attacking players or one of the midfield 3 (Reid, Watson and Faurlin) will miss out. Signing another striker isn’t going to change this it will just mean 2 good players will miss out instead of 1. The only solution ever to this would be to have just 11 good players at one time and to fill the rest of the squad with mediocre squad players who are happy not to appear week in and week out. How would that solve the problem though? It wouldn’t. It would mean that as soon as we have an injury or suspension we are left with a team full of not quite good enough players. To gain promotion we have to use the whole squad and the more qualities players we have the better the chances of promotion. This means good players won’t always start but as I said before that is squad football. I understand Chelsea are a Premiership team but if they play 4-4-2 as they always do now that Drogba and Anelka have formed a partnership it means that only 4 players from Deco, Lampard, J. Cole, Belleti, Malouda, Essien, Ballack, Zhirkov and Mikel can start and the rest will miss out. They maybe a Premiership team and we are just a Championship team but players will always miss out regardless of how good they maybe.

    If Magilton had a full fit squad to chose from he wouldn’t have signed Reid but he would still have to choose 2 from Rowlands, Mahon, Watson and Faurlin. What happens when Cook, Balanta and Ephraim are all fully fit? Some will miss out so the argument that we shouldn’t sign a player because we can’t play 12 or because you have to drop someone doesn’t stick. Darren Bent and Michael Owen could be the most in form strikers when it comes to Cappello picking the World Cup squad next June but it’s quite feasible that both will miss out if he decides to take Walcott, Rooney, Defoe, C Cole and Heskey instead. Again that’s life as a footballer. If the manager sees fit not to pick someone or we have 13, 14 or even 15 players who warrant a starting position it is a much better situation to have then to have just 8 or 9 in form players.

    The loan window is open and if we are able to bring in Premiership midfielders who aren’t guaranteed a starting position (as was the case for Taraabt on Saturday) then why can’t we bring in a Premiership striker? If he finds form then he’ll warrant a starting place if he isn’t then he’ll have to wait his turn, which will come a lot sooner playing for us then it would in the Premiership. The reason Frazier Campbell regularly starts for Sunderland or appears from the bench is because he dropped down a division because he had no chance of getting in the United team. He scored goals and got noticed. The same is happening for Simpson right now. He’ll either sign for us at the end of the season or will be picked up by a mid table Premiership side as a 3rd/4th choice striker who will feature regularly from the bench or start when injuries occur. Players like Sturridge, Healy, Macheda, Delfounseo, Vaz Te and Murphy have all played little or no Premiership football this season meaning they are out of favour and need games. What is stopping us from ringing up Ferguson and offering Macheda match time? He doesn’t even get a position on the bench for United but would definitely warrant a place ahead of Pellicori or Agyemang meaning he would get his chance sooner rather than not all. Newcastle signed Harewood who found himself not even featuring on the bench for Aston Villa. In his first few games for Newcastle (including the one against us) he started from the bench. He is now starting regularly and scoring goals because he took his opportunity but he still signed for Newcastle in the first place although he wasn’t guaranteed a starting place. Again the argument that no Premiership striker would sign for a Championship club who couldn’t guarantee him a starting place doesn’t stick because the Harewood situation disproves that argument.

    Another argument is that we’ve scored 29 goals this season so scoring isn’t a problem. Is it when you consider the facts: We’ve played 17 games this season 3 of which we have failed to score and lost those matches as a result (against Swansea, Bristol City and Doncaster). We’ve drawn 6 matches this season when a single goal in any of them would have meant 2 points more. Wolves drew fewer games than they lost last season because they were prepared to go for a win which may have resulted in a loss but took more points than they gave away. A single goal in 2 of the 6 matches would have meant we will have still secured the same amount of points as we did by drawing them. Meaning if we had gone for the win or had strikers capable of finishing chances we could have secured the same amount of points in less than half the games. How many games will we narrowly lose by or don’t win because we don’t take our chances? Of the teams we’ve drawn against only Newcastle are above us in the league meaning we’ve dropped points against poorer opposition in 5 matches. In the games against Barnsley, Preston, Derby and Reading we scored 17 goals but we could have won those matches scoring just 9 goals. Obviously if we had done our goal difference would have been as good but goal difference only comes into play when all 46 matches are completed and it only matters if you finish level on points with 2nd, 6th or 22nd. We could finish the season with a goal difference of +100 but if we finish with fewer points than 6th it doesn’t make a difference. Scoring 17 goals or 117 in those against Barnsley, Preston, Derby and Reading still only picked us up 12 points. We’ve picked up just 15 points from the other 13 matches and have only scored 12 goals in the process.

    According to the Telegraph stats website we’ve had 46 shots more than Cardiff this season but have scored 4 goals fewer. Michael Chopra has had 33 shots at goal, which is 1, fewer than Taraabt but has scored 7 league goals more. Add the goals and the shots that Buzsaky has had and Taraabt and Buzsaky combined have scored fewer goals than Chopra in 34 shots more. The argument can’t be that we are having less chances because we’ve had more shots at goal then any other team in the division (with the exception of WBA). The league is 46 matches and not just 4 matches when you score so many goals it make the rest of the season look better than it actually is. We’ve had 13 other matches and have secured just 15 points from a possible 39. We are 6th overall but we could easily be 2nd if we had finished our chances.

    There is no argument for saying that we can’t sign a striker on loan the window is open. Newcastle signed a striker and couldn’t guarantee him a starting position so why can’t we? Coventry are our bogey team, Middlesbrough are finding their feet but have quality in depth and Watford and WBA are on form. January may only be round the corner but what happens if we drop further behind the top 2? The play offs are a lottery. Sheffield United were the in form team going in to it but couldn’t get promoted. Reading had been closer to automatic promotion all season but they too missed out. We need to secure our top 6 place and keep up with WBA and Newcastle we are already 7 points behind WBA but by the time New Years Day comes we could be much further behind.

    The excuses have to stop and the chequebook has to open before we write off another season in the great 4 year plan.
    Last edited by sirpiechucker; 24-11-2009, 03:20 PM.

  • #2
    Help! My eyes are bleeding.

    Comment


    • #3
      you may deal in facts, but i suggest you also invest in paragraphs...
      RUN, MWEPU, RUN! CHARGE FORTH AND BOOT THAT BALL DOWNFIELD MY BOY, YOU MAGNIFICENT CHAMPION YOU!

      Comment


      • #4
        Very nice analysis - especially with respect to the goalscoring. Still cannot imagine some will acknowledge what you are saying.:devil:

        Comment


        • #5
          War and Peace eat your heart out!!!
          #standuptocancer
          #inyourfacecancer

          Comment


          • #6
            Sorry I've edited it now and put paragraphs in.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by sirpiechucker View Post
              Those who have read my posts over the past couple of years will know that I deal with facts and not matters of opinion when it comes to a differing of opinion. Therefore I wanted to write a new thread based on a subject that qprsteve had started yesterday to point out a few things.

              Firstly, we are a Championship club but we have been able to attract 5 premiership players to play for us this season (6 if you include Heaton). So although we play our football at a lower level we are able to sign players from a higher level of football. The loan window is still open and we have taken advantage of this only last week by signing a midfielder and a goal keeper from the Premiership.

              If you were to run a poll and ask people regardless of whom we pick would they like to see 1 or 2 strikers start a match for us a very high majority would always say 2 strikers. This means that good players will miss out but that is squad football. Taraabt missed out on Saturday because JM decided to pick Reid and Watson instead. If Taraabt had started then one of these players (or Faurlin) would have missed out. We can only pick 11 players and we look like always picking 4 defenders meaning that one of our attacking players or one of the midfield 3 (Reid, Watson and Faurlin) will miss out. Signing another striker isn’t going to change this it will just mean 2 good players will miss out instead of 1. The only solution ever to this would be to have just 11 good players at one time and to fill the rest of the squad with mediocre squad players who are happy not to appear week in and week out. How would that solve the problem though? It wouldn’t. It would mean that as soon as we have an injury or suspension we are left with a team full of not quite good enough players. To gain promotion we have to use the whole squad and the more qualities players we have the better the chances of promotion. This means good players won’t always start but as I said before that is squad football. I understand Chelsea are a Premiership team but if they play 4-4-2 as they always do now that Drogba and Anelka have formed a partnership it means that only 4 players from Deco, Lampard, J. Cole, Belleti, Malouda, Essien, Ballack, Zhirkov and Mikel can start and the rest will miss out. They maybe a Premiership team and we are just a Championship team but players will always miss out regardless of how good they maybe.

              If Magilton had a full fit squad to chose from he wouldn’t have signed Reid but he would still have to choose 2 from Rowlands, Mahon, Watson and Faurlin. What happens when Cook, Balanta and Ephraim are all fully fit? Some will miss out so the argument that we shouldn’t sign a player because we can’t play 12 or because you have to drop someone doesn’t stick. Darren Bent and Michael Owen could be the most in form strikers when it comes to Cappello picking the World Cup squad next June but it’s quite feasible that both will miss out if he decides to take Walcott, Rooney, Defoe, C Cole and Heskey instead. Again that’s life as a footballer. If the manager sees fit not to pick someone or we have 13, 14 or even 15 players who warrant a starting position it is a much better situation to have then to have just 8 or 9 in form players.

              The loan window is open and if we are able to bring in Premiership midfielders who aren’t guaranteed a starting position (as was the case for Taraabt on Saturday) then why can’t we bring in a Premiership striker? If he finds form then he’ll warrant a starting place if he isn’t then he’ll have to wait his turn, which will come a lot sooner playing for us then it would in the Premiership. The reason Frazier Campbell regularly starts for Sunderland or appears from the bench is because he dropped down a division because he had no chance of getting in the United team. He scored goals and got noticed. The same is happening for Simpson right now. He’ll either sign for us at the end of the season or will be picked up by a mid table Premiership side as a 3rd/4th choice striker who will feature regularly from the bench or start when injuries occur. Players like Sturridge, Healy, Macheda, Delfounseo, Vaz Te and Murphy have all played little or no Premiership football this season meaning they are out of favour and need games. What is stopping us from ringing up Ferguson and offering Macheda match time? He doesn’t even get a position on the bench for United but would definitely warrant a place ahead of Pellicori or Agyemang meaning he would get his chance sooner rather than not all. Newcastle signed Harewood who found himself not even featuring on the bench for Aston Villa. In his first few games for Newcastle (including the one against us) he started from the bench. He is now starting regularly and scoring goals because he took his opportunity but he still signed for Newcastle in the first place although he wasn’t guaranteed a starting place. Again the argument that no Premiership striker would sign for a Championship club who couldn’t guarantee him a starting place doesn’t stick because the Harewood situation disproves that argument.

              Another argument is that we’ve scored 29 goals this season so scoring isn’t a problem. Is it when you consider the facts: We’ve played 17 games this season 3 of which we have failed to score and lost those matches as a result (against Swansea, Bristol City and Doncaster). We’ve drawn 6 matches this season when a single goal in any of them would have meant 2 points more. Wolves drew fewer games than they lost last season because they were prepared to go for a win which may have resulted in a loss but took more points than they gave away. A single goal in 2 of the 6 matches would have meant we will have still secured the same amount of points as we did by drawing them. Meaning if we had gone for the win or had strikers capable of finishing chances we could have secured the same amount of points in less than half the games. How many games will we narrowly lose by or don’t win because we don’t take our chances? Of the teams we’ve drawn against only Newcastle are above us in the league meaning we’ve dropped points against poorer opposition in 5 matches. In the games against Barnsley, Preston, Derby and Reading we scored 17 goals but we could have won those matches scoring just 9 goals. Obviously if we had done our goal difference would have been as good but goal difference only comes into play when all 46 matches are completed and it only matters if you finish level on points with 2nd, 6th or 22nd. We could finish the season with a goal difference of +100 but if we finish with fewer points than 6th it doesn’t make a difference. Scoring 17 goals or 117 in those against Barnsley, Preston, Derby and Reading still only picked us up 12 points. We’ve picked up just 15 points from the other 13 matches and have only scored 12 goals in the process.

              According to the Telegraph stats website we’ve had 46 shots more than Cardiff this season but have scored 4 goals fewer. Michael Chopra has had 33 shots at goal, which is 1, fewer than Taraabt but has scored 7 league goals more. Add the goals and the shots that Buzsaky has had and Taraabt and Buzsaky combined have scored fewer goals than Chopra in 34 shots more. The argument can’t be that we are having less chances because we’ve had more shots at goal then any other team in the division (with the exception of WBA). The league is 46 matches and not just 4 matches when you score so many goals it make the rest of the season look better than it actually is. We’ve had 13 other matches and have secured just 15 points from a possible 39. We are 6th overall but we could easily be 2nd if we had finished our chances.

              There is no argument for saying that we can’t sign a striker on loan the window is open. Newcastle signed a striker and couldn’t guarantee him a starting position so why can’t we? Coventry are our bogey team, Middlesbrough are finding their feet but have quality in depth and Watford and WBA are on form. January may only be round the corner but what happens if we drop further behind the top 2? The play offs are a lottery. Sheffield United were the in form team going in to it but couldn’t get promoted. Reading had been closer to automatic promotion all season but they too missed out. We need to secure our top 6 place and keep up with WBA and Newcastle we are already 7 points behind WBA but by the time New Years Day comes we could be much further behind.

              The excuses have to stop and the chequebook has to open before we write off another season in the great 4 year plan.
              again spot on Sir, your statistics about shots on target proves we need another striker, but some will still bury their heads in the sand ;D

              the problem leis with the amount of loans we have as well, I'm sure their clubs would have said they must play if fit or something along those lines, that's why we are trying to play to many midfielders in the team, it basically boils down to the club doing it on the cheap again & not buying what was needed in the summer & then plugging the holes with loans :devil:

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by pkloft View Post
                again spot on Sir, your statistics about shots on target proves we need another striker, but some will still bury their heads in the sand ;D

                the problem leis with the amount of loans we have as well, I'm sure their clubs would have said they must play if fit or something along those lines, that's why we are trying to play to many midfielders in the team, it basically boils down to the club doing it on the cheap again & not buying what was needed in the summer & then plugging the holes with loans :devil:
                If it truly were the case that loanees had to play then Taraabt would have started on Saturday and either Buzsaky, Routledge or Faurlin would have missed out. There is no law to say that if you sign someone you have to guarantee them matches. If this were the case Pellicori would have played far more games than he has.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Good points raised.... always go along with a try for a win, as inevitably one win = three draws.

                  A proven striker would be the dimention I think that our current squad lacks, and the Chopra stats speak for themselves. That said, we are getting goals out of our mid field at quite a reasonable rate.

                  Same old arguement re: Michael Owen, but the reality is that he'll almost certainly score when placed in the position to..... versus HH, who through lack of confidence/ or ability or what, will almost certainly miss.

                  So, I join the bandwagon, the club must press for a died in the wool, hardened goalscoring m/c and given the service that the midfield should give, we'll be banking goals for fun!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by sirpiechucker View Post
                    If it truly were the case that loanees had to play then Taraabt would have started on Saturday and either Buzsaky, Routledge or Faurlin would have missed out. There is no law to say that if you sign someone you have to guarantee them matches. If this were the case Pellicori would have played far more games than he has.
                    take your point, but i didn't mean it as "literally" take Taarabt, now I'm sure if he was on the bench for say 3 or 4 games Spurs could well call him back or it wouldn't look great if we made a bid for him, as for talking about Pellicori in the same breath as Taarabt......come on

                    maybe, just maybe that's why we haven't bothered with a forward! who was instrumental in signing Taarabt, yes GP now we've sent out our only other half decent striker on loan which narrows down the 2 up front choice, thus JM has to pick the extra midfielder like playing Routledge or buzsaky along side Simpson freeing at least another spot in midfield!

                    I'm scratching my head uncontrollably wondering why the hell we haven't signed a forward & letting HH out on loan, just doesn't make sense, so that's the only logical reason i can come up with, GP put his faith in Taarabt scoring 15 or more goals for us but he was quickly found out playing up front so he (as far as GP is concerned) must play (and wasn't he dropped to the bench on Saturday because he missed the coach, nothing to do with if he was fit or not, not that it matters tho)

                    we must be the only team in the division that haven't got 2 out & out goalscorers up front, you watch come Saturday it'll be Simpson with one of the "midfielders" think teams have sussed us out & the only change we've got is either Aggy (whose great for 15 mins) or the Pelican not exactly going to put the fear of death into any defence are they!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I fully expect that Taraabt, Routledge and Buzsaky will all score goals for us in this division but the problem we have is the amount of chances it takes them to score because they aren't natural goal scorers. Simpson has scored 7 goals from just 22 shots whereas its taken Taraabt 34 shots to score just 4. An actual goal scorer like Chopra has as I've already said taken fewer shots and scored far more.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Agree with that except the bit about Harewood scoring goals I could be wrong but I believe he has a total of one and that came against us!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by qprdad View Post
                          Good points raised.... always go along with a try for a win, as inevitably one win = three draws.

                          A proven striker would be the dimention I think that our current squad lacks, and the Chopra stats speak for themselves. That said, we are getting goals out of our mid field at quite a reasonable rate.

                          Same old arguement re: Michael Owen, but the reality is that he'll almost certainly score when placed in the position to..... versus HH, who through lack of confidence/ or ability or what, will almost certainly miss.

                          So, I join the bandwagon, the club must press for a died in the wool, hardened goalscoring m/c and given the service that the midfield should give, we'll be banking goals for fun!
                          But HH is scoring for fun at Watford?.....Is he getting more service or is he getting less pressure?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sleeping Giants View Post
                            But HH is scoring for fun at Watford?.....Is he getting more service or is he getting less pressure?
                            Who knows.... but he's defo on fire for Watford!

                            Maybe if he'd bagged some of those early goals that he should have got for us, confidence would grow and thinks might have turned out differently.

                            However, we'd both agree that we'd want a Chopra before a HH!

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