QPR Finances

[CroydonCaptainJack]

Ok, you are right and it is a fruitless task trying to stop it. The internet is a powerful thing eh!

[West Acton]

I presume you haven't seen Stanleys post then?

It’s all over Twitter mate the letter and what Hits posted and what hits posted is public documents available to everyone

sounds like it’s sorted so well done the club and owners. Clean slate going forwards let’s ensure we have learnt from the mistakes of the past and are stronger and wiser going forwards

[Hitman34]

I presume you haven't seen Stanleys post then?

Ok mate, having read Stans post again i have removed the documents.

cannot see the problem with them though as they are at companies house and anyone can view them.

[Hitman34]

I presume you haven't seen Stanleys post then?

This is a public document croydon, anyone can view this on the net.

I presumed that Stan was on about the dodgy efl letter.

Cannot see why this document is not allowed.

[Hitman34]

http://www.wearetherangersboys.com/f...finances/page2

Public domain

my apologies, did not see that thread Cricket.

Please merge mods.

[CroydonCaptainJack]

I presume you haven't seen Stanleys post then?

[Hitman34]

I'm probably wrong Acts but if you look at the first document, they are converting 21 mil debt into shares, that pretty much matches the figure in that dodgy efl document regarding the ffp fine does it not?

[acricketer]

http://www.wearetherangersboys.com/forum/general/qpr-fans/132341-club-finances/page2

Public domain

[West Acton]

So what you saying Willis (for those of you that watched different strokes)

[klonk]

This is the exact sum listed in the 'fake' press release over FFP....."The Club's shareholders will capitalise £21.965m of outstanding loans"

that's correct - but it's also the exact sum mentioned in the source documentation for my post of 17 july (reprinted below)... it's been in the public domain for nearly a fortnight.

just a quick note... noticed that something (loans) have been converted once again to shares according to some papers lodged at company house today.... the shares have a cash value of £21.9m, so i guess this is probably the value of the loans converted.

there's very little detail on the form (just the words 'loan conversion'), but £21.9m is close to (but not exactly the same) as the total of the £16m loan (that incurs an outrageous 26% interest charge) and the £5.9m interest charged in the 2016-17 accounts. it could be that... or it could be something else....

[acricketer]

mini update on this one...

some papers were lodged at companies house today, giving slightly more information about the loan conversion..

the only particularly interesting point is that the shares resulting from the £21.965m of debt conversion have been allocated 50/50 between ruben and uncle tony - this is interesting because, according to the most recent set of accounts, all the loans were coming through ruben (and none from uncle).

since i don't want this post to be removed, i'm not going to speculate any further.

This is the exact sum listed in the 'fake' press release over FFP....."The Club's shareholders will capitalise £21.965m of outstanding loans"

[klonk]

mini update on this one...

some papers were lodged at companies house today, giving slightly more information about the loan conversion..

the only particularly interesting point is that the shares resulting from the £21.965m of debt conversion have been allocated 50/50 between ruben and uncle tony - this is interesting because, according to the most recent set of accounts, all the loans were coming through ruben (and none from uncle).

since i don't want this post to be removed, i'm not going to speculate any further.

[hal9thou]

if one day, hoos completes the cost cutting and gets the club to a point where it doesn't need regular cash injections from the owners, then ruben potentially has control of a club whose books will suddenly look good and could be sellable (although i'm fairly sure that the current owners will only ever recoup a tiny proportion of the cash they've spent on the club).

Could well be. If we get to that point, I wonder if Ruben will stick or sell. He is already the majority shareholder.

Nail on head re the interest charges. It could backfire badly though: no player investment could compromise on field success. The financial reward for promotion would be a massive assist in
terms of liquidity, and we're basically not going there... because of the various factors which push us towards FFP limits. Vicious circle.

The only hope is to survive at this level with no investment until the books balance. Right?

[CroydonCaptainJack]

eseentially, it's a takeover-by-stealth. ruben bankrolls the club (which continues to not be able to finance itself), in return he converts his interest charge (and some of the money he loans) into shares. bit-by-bit he increases his shareholding and eventually will be the majority shareholder (if he isn't already). to be fair to him, if you ignore the interest charge, he is writing off millions of quid's worth of loans each year to do this.

in the short-term, the problem is that his interest charge gets recorded in the accounts each year and pushes the club closer and closer to its ffp limit. in doing so, we need to cut back ever further on other budgets.

the following is complete speculation.... if one day, hoos completes the cost cutting and gets the club to a point where it doesn't need regular cash injections from the owners, then ruben potentially has control of a club whose books will suddenly look good and could be sellable (although i'm fairly sure that the current owners will only ever recoup a tiny proportion of the cash they've spent on the club).

I think that last point is very important.

[klonk]

Ruben?

That 26% is horrific. Flagged it before and still sounds horrible. How can anyone agree to do business like that? WTF is going on?

eseentially, it's a takeover-by-stealth. ruben bankrolls the club (which continues to not be able to finance itself), in return he converts his interest charge (and some of the money he loans) into shares. bit-by-bit he increases his shareholding and eventually will be the majority shareholder (if he isn't already). to be fair to him, if you ignore the interest charge, he is writing off millions of quid's worth of loans each year to do this.

in the short-term, the problem is that his interest charge gets recorded in the accounts each year and pushes the club closer and closer to its ffp limit. in doing so, we need to cut back ever further on other budgets.

the following is complete speculation.... if one day, hoos completes the cost cutting and gets the club to a point where it doesn't need regular cash injections from the owners, then ruben potentially has control of a club whose books will suddenly look good and could be sellable (although i'm fairly sure that the current owners will only ever recoup a tiny proportion of the cash they've spent on the club).