QPR Finances

[klonk]

hadn't noticed before, but last year's (17-18 season) accounts are available (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...filing-history). not had time to properly look through, but main points seem to be:

- increased loss £37.5m against last year's £6.5m - 2 main contributing factors: reduction in parachute payments (£15m less) and the FFP fine (£15m... it's complicated to explain, but this is the valuation of the (interest-free) £20m that we need to pay over the next decade or so at today's prices)
- wage bill was every bit as high as the season before £30.6m - we had a staggering 119 players, managers and coaches on the books (up from 111 the previous season)
- current ownership is ruben (51%), uncle (46%), amit (3%) and others (0.2%)
- the club no longer has any bank loans (only shareholder loans from ruben)
- ruben has finally stopped charging interest on his loans

bottom line seems to be that we're still some way from the end of this pain... wage bill was still way too high and while shifting the likes of ned, robinson, mackie, smithies and perch will have reduces that a bit, we probably need to assume that virtually all of the squad who are out of contract in the summer won't be around next season either.

[klonk]

But if you're right that's excellent albeit overdue news as future interest cannot arise. That reduces the hit on profits, and eases the FFP purse strings. Donnit?

um... i think we have quite a bit more debt than just £21.965m. may 2017 we had £46m - since then £29.5m converted (plus interest charged), still probably at least £16m knocking about (probably a lot more).

[Undecided]

in my original post, i speculated that the £21.9m was a mixture of the £16m loan that attracted 26% interest and the £5.9m interest charge in the 2016-17 accounts (the numbers don't completely match, but are similar). there wasn't, and still isn't, any clear information about what has been converted (just the words "loan conversion").

however, if that was the case, i don't see why uncle tony would receive half the shares - they should all go to ruben (as he was the only shareholder who was lending the club money at the time of the last balance sheet - may 2017).



i know nothing... apart from that we've all been asked not to speculate about a certain now-deleted tweet.

Fair enough - Mods, how about embargo'ing these posts till the news breaks, if it breaks?

[Undecided]

Could be wrong but my reading was that the loan and the interest were converted into shares.

So if Ruben lent the club a tenner, and shares were £1 per share, he'd get £13 quids worth of shares (or whatever taking the interest into account) for writing off the loan?

Like I say, could be wrong...

But if you're right that's excellent albeit overdue news as future interest cannot arise. That reduces the hit on profits, and eases the FFP purse strings. Donnit?

[klonk]

Could be wrong but my reading was that the loan and the interest were converted into shares.

So if Ruben lent the club a tenner, and shares were £1 per share, he'd get £13 quids worth of shares (or whatever taking the interest into account) for writing off the loan?

Like I say, could be wrong...

in my original post, i speculated that the £21.9m was a mixture of the £16m loan that attracted 26% interest and the £5.9m interest charge in the 2016-17 accounts (the numbers don't completely match, but are similar). there wasn't, and still isn't, any clear information about what has been converted (just the words "loan conversion").

however, if that was the case, i don't see why uncle tony would receive half the shares - they should all go to ruben (as he was the only shareholder who was lending the club money at the time of the last balance sheet - may 2017).

Oh no, not another "be here in 24 hours!"

i know nothing... apart from that we've all been asked not to speculate about a certain now-deleted tweet.

[hal9thou]

OK, but if the interest has been converted but not the underlying loan, .

Could be wrong but my reading was that the loan and the interest were converted into shares.

So if Ruben lent the club a tenner, and shares were £1 per share, he'd get £13 quids worth of shares (or whatever taking the interest into account) for writing off the loan?

Like I say, could be wrong...

[Undecided]

no reason to believe there's a relation - using actual (but not widely circulated) information in a forgery tends to lend it an air of authenticity.

we'll find out tomorrow, i guess...

Oh no, not another "be here in 24 hours!"

[Undecided]

i don't want to speculate about the twitter thing that we're not allowed to discuss.

the loan conversion of £21.965m was first mentioned in public record documents lodged by the club to companies house on 17 july 2018 (9 days ago). an additional document, giving slightly more detail (in particular who the new shares were allocated to) was made available today on the companies house website.

it is completely unclear whether this conversion of loans to share capital is merely the continuation of a pattern that occurred in october 2015 (£180.7m), may 2016 (£28.0m) and august 2017 (£7.5m) or something else. the most obvious conclusion is that it is just a continuation of past treatment of shareholder loans and has no greater significance.

The shares have been allocated equally between Tony and Ruben suggesting they both had equal loans capitalised? Don't think that was the case previously.

[klonk]

Got to be related..... could be why the club were so upset by EPL dropping the press release ball?

no reason to believe there's a relation - using actual (but not widely circulated) information in a forgery tends to lend it an air of authenticity.

we'll find out tomorrow, i guess...

[Undecided]

Yep you're right. The interest is also effectively converted.

OK, but if the interest has been converted but not the underlying loan, interest will continue to accrue on the loan, and be charged against profits, continuing the strain on the FFP limits.

[hal9thou]

i don't want to speculate about the twitter thing that we're not allowed to discuss.

the loan conversion of £21.965m was first mentioned in public record documents lodged by the club to companies house on 17 july 2018 (9 days ago). an additional document, giving slightly more detail (in particular who the new shares were allocated to) was made available today on the companies house website.

it is completely unclear whether this conversion of loans to share capital is merely the continuation of a pattern that occurred in october 2015 (£180.7m), may 2016 (£28.0m) and august 2017 (£7.5m) or something else. the most obvious conclusion is that it is just a continuation of past treatment of shareholder loans and has no greater significance.

Got to be related..... could be why the club were so upset by EPL dropping the press release ball?

[hal9thou]

doesn't that drain evaporate?

Yep you're right. The interest is also effectively converted.

[klonk]

i don't want to speculate about the twitter thing that we're not allowed to discuss.

the loan conversion of £21.965m was first mentioned in public record documents lodged by the club to companies house on 17 july 2018 (9 days ago). an additional document, giving slightly more detail (in particular who the new shares were allocated to) was made available today on the companies house website.

it is completely unclear whether this conversion of loans to share capital is merely the continuation of a pattern that occurred in october 2015 (£180.7m), may 2016 (£28.0m) and august 2017 (£7.5m) or something else. the most obvious conclusion is that it is just a continuation of past treatment of shareholder loans and has no greater significance.

[Undecided]

So basically the 21m covers the fine and the league's costs.

We're covering this by shares conversion, this is how Ruben has gained control.

It still leaves the problem of the heavy interest, effectively that is part of the price we're paying for the FFP dog' s breakfast.

What loans have been converted? If it includes the loan on which Ruben is charging usury rates, doesn't that drain evaporate?

[hal9thou]

So basically the 21m covers the fine and the league's costs.

We're covering this by shares conversion, this is how Ruben has gained control.

It still leaves the problem of the heavy interest, effectively that is part of the price we're paying for the FFP dog' s breakfast.

This arrangement will reduce the Mittal stake.

I cant understand why the club asked anyone to stay schtum, the EPL press release has been all over interweb for a day and a half.