Lower Loft Access Problems - Please Read Help Needed

[SussexR]

Hi SussexR, I attended the meeting and the club's answers didn't appear to be a whitewash or untrue to me. There were other fan group reps at the meeting unhappy about it and in exactly the same position as you who left the meeting feeling their complaints had been fairly addressed.

Below is the relevant section from the meeting again. Can you say exactly what the club have said here that you believe to be untrue, as it seems to directly contradict what you're saying?:

Lower Loft

What happened at the recent home fixture against Stoke City? Why did it happen? What is being done?

Fan Sites - The level of negative feedback in the forums over the activities against Stoke City, where multiple fans complained about being refused entry or being treated badly by stewards at the entrance to the Lower Loft was raised. This has created a significant amount of negativity and it is generally felt that this was handled very badly.

Fan Sites - The question as to whether the Lower Loft is the right place for the family stand was considered a separate issue to the apparent abuse of the current system in place. The Club received complaints from other family season ticket holders about adults attending without juniors and using bad language.

QPR - Club received complaints from other family season ticket holders about adults attending without juniors and using bad language. As a result we opted to monitor those attending to discover the extent of non-compliance to the requirement to have an Under 16 year old in the family group.

QPR - To be clear, no one was refused entry, despite a few delays.

QPR - Some of the stewarding was inappropriate on the day and Operations have taken responsibility for this and replied to all emails from fans voicing their concerns.

Fan Sites - It was raised that over-zealous stewarding has often been the root of problems at the ground, not the way to solve them.

QPR - Next steps – the club has written to every adult Season Ticket holder in the Family Stand.

QPR - A group of families will be invited into Loftus Road for a meeting with club staff to discuss any outstanding issues This meeting will take place before the next home match (Liverpool) and Customer Services, Box Office, Marketing and Operations will all be represented.

QPR - There is no intention of preventing anyone following the official guidelines on seating in the family stand from attending the Liverpool match.

QPR - The guidelines around the family stand are that any ticket holder who should normally attend with a child but finds themselves in the situation that the child is unable to attend the game must get in touch with the club at the earliest possible opportunity. This should be done either by phone to the box office in advance of the game or in person at the box office on the day of the game.

QPR - In the meantime, we welcome any further feedback. Please email boxoffice@qpr.co.uk

Yes I can.

1. QPR - To be clear, no one was refused entry, despite a few delays. yes they were, I witnessed it myself. People left the turnstile area having been refused entry

2. QPR - Some of the stewarding was inappropriate on the day and Operations have taken responsibility for this and replied to all emails from fans voicing their concerns. not true, I haven't had an answer and I know others that haven't

[Stanley]

Yep, I did see that. The clubs answers were a whitewash and untrue in places. For example I know that people were turned away and the club have not answered emails of complaint. I haven't had a reply from them as of today.

Hi SussexR, I attended the meeting and the club's answers didn't appear to be a whitewash or untrue to me. There were other fan group reps at the meeting unhappy about it and in exactly the same position as you who left the meeting feeling their complaints had been fairly addressed.

Below is the relevant section from the meeting again. Can you say exactly what the club say here that you believe to be untrue, as it seems to directly contradict what you're saying?:

Lower Loft

What happened at the recent home fixture against Stoke City? Why did it happen? What is being done?

Fan Sites - The level of negative feedback in the forums over the activities against Stoke City, where multiple fans complained about being refused entry or being treated badly by stewards at the entrance to the Lower Loft was raised. This has created a significant amount of negativity and it is generally felt that this was handled very badly.

Fan Sites - The question as to whether the Lower Loft is the right place for the family stand was considered a separate issue to the apparent abuse of the current system in place. The Club received complaints from other family season ticket holders about adults attending without juniors and using bad language.

QPR - Club received complaints from other family season ticket holders about adults attending without juniors and using bad language. As a result we opted to monitor those attending to discover the extent of non-compliance to the requirement to have an Under 16 year old in the family group.

QPR - To be clear, no one was refused entry, despite a few delays.

QPR - Some of the stewarding was inappropriate on the day and Operations have taken responsibility for this and replied to all emails from fans voicing their concerns.

Fan Sites - It was raised that over-zealous stewarding has often been the root of problems at the ground, not the way to solve them.

QPR - Next steps – the club has written to every adult Season Ticket holder in the Family Stand.

QPR - A group of families will be invited into Loftus Road for a meeting with club staff to discuss any outstanding issues This meeting will take place before the next home match (Liverpool) and Customer Services, Box Office, Marketing and Operations will all be represented.

QPR - There is no intention of preventing anyone following the official guidelines on seating in the family stand from attending the Liverpool match.

QPR - The guidelines around the family stand are that any ticket holder who should normally attend with a child but finds themselves in the situation that the child is unable to attend the game must get in touch with the club at the earliest possible opportunity. This should be done either by phone to the box office in advance of the game or in person at the box office on the day of the game.

QPR - In the meantime, we welcome any further feedback. Please email boxoffice@qpr.co.uk

[TBLOCKRANGER]

My thoughts above in bold.

DS

What you say might be sensible but that's not the issue as the terms and conditions are clear and specifically say to gain entry to the family stand a junior must be present in the group. I attach below the clubs FAQs and scroll down and it clearly sets out junior must be present.

Also club appear to say if you know your kid can't make it, contact the club in advance.

Also I looked at the prices and family end is silver for an adult and u16 is bought at a concession jointly and total comes to £724, in any other part of the ground £599 plus you pay £174 for U16 so total of £773.

http://www.qpr.co.uk/documents/foreverrs-faqs64-816296.pdf

The question posed by OP is really whether or not the club are acting fairly and I reckon they are. The rules were in place at the time of purchase, punters were attracted to family stand due I presume the view, proximity to pitch, family atmosphere and cheaper prices than equivalent silver elsewhere, can't understand why now after people have got their tickets etc they want to renegotiate the terms and conditions. If that is the case I was promised exciting and good football when I renewed my Gold, can I have an 80% refund please

[SussexR]

Van mate I know what you're saying, I grew up where hearing swearing was very much just apart of every day life and its never bothered me. Most of my family were/are in the building industry so also growing up with that, being around building sites/workman as a kid like you know sort of gives you thick skin against most things anyway... But thats just me, not everybody is like that. Some people don't want their kids hearing/being around that sort of thing while they enjoy a family day watching their team. And thats what the whole idea of the family end is, it gives them that choice. If their happy for their kids to hear it/see it then there's plenty more seats in the ground to sit...

BUT all that said kids do get sick, school etc reason why they can't go, so there has to be a happy medium where you can get in (if got a season ticket) without your kids, but somehow prove you've got kids....

Agree with that Nick, it's a common sense approach that's needed. Can you be persuaded to send and email of support?

They all help you know. rangersllsg@gmail.com

[SussexR]

My thoughts above in bold.

This, in a nutshell.

Can I please ask again for all that support us in the fight against the injustice to email us at rangersllsg@gmail.com
Today it's the Lower Loft being targeted with badly thought through rules, tomorrow it could be you.

Please support your fellow fans, they need you.

[SussexR]

simple solution would be to take both season tickets if your kid cant go. Then they know you are not getting an adult in on the ticket.

I always do but that for me is not the issue. The club have a duty to make sure that adults do not enter on child tickets, but should not harm everyone else doing it.

[Nick]

This is to do with the stoke game where alot of people missed the first 10 .c'mon Nick ,I sit lower loft with my kids and swear myself. old teacher of mine used to say do think your at a football match calm down ya long haired bay city roller looking ####.tried to slash him twice,what has happened to parents today? Taking adults in on a kids ticket, never happened in my day .we used to bunk in behind the hot dog van on sa rd.would love to have my kids know the 80,s way.gone all health and safety these days xx

Van mate I know what you're saying, I grew up where hearing swearing was very much just apart of every day life and its never bothered me. Most of my family were/are in the building industry so also growing up with that, being around building sites/workman as a kid like you know sort of gives you thick skin against most things anyway... But thats just me, not everybody is like that. Some people don't want their kids hearing/being around that sort of thing while they enjoy a family day watching their team. And thats what the whole idea of the family end is, it gives them that choice. If their happy for their kids to hear it/see it then there's plenty more seats in the ground to sit...

BUT all that said kids do get sick, school etc reason why they can't go, so there has to be a happy medium where you can get in (if got a season ticket) without your kids, but somehow prove you've got kids....

[dsqpr]

Perhaps you should have read the thread about the fans sites meeting.

http://www.wearetherangersboys.com/forum/showthread.php?183462-Fans-Sites-Meeting-%96-September-2014-%96-Minutes

Quite incredible that there was not a single reply to a comprehensive write up about various matters to do with our club.

It seemed that people were more interested about the pros and cons of swearing on a messageboard than real issues.

Oh dear, I'm going to upset Dave again. This is a lowbrow site brightonr, that is why you didn't get any replies!

[dsqpr]

I don't understand why the club in this instance are wrong. Lower loft is designated a "family stand" which I presume definition of a family must be at the very least one adult and one child. Right. But as has been pointed out, there can be all kinds of reasons why the child might miss a match. It seems completely assinine to me that the other season ticket holders in the group should be denied entry because the child isn't there!
I pesume but accept i am note sure, season tickets for the family section are cheaper than say other parts of the stadium. For example if you bought child and adult in Ellerslie you would pay significantly more than Lower Loft. Right. But why on earth would that mean you should be denied entry if, for example, your child is ill?!
Apart from price, Lower Loft (hopefully) offers a family atmosphere with children sitting with adults rather than maybe other parts of the stadium where your 8 year old is surrounded by 100 adults. Right again. But this doesn't change because a few of the children can't make it. And behaviour that does not meet the standards for the Family Stand can and should be dealt with on the day by the stewards and the police.
I for one on this occasion don't see what the club are doing wrong. They are, apparently, denying entry to somebody who has a ticket! That is definitely wrong, IMHO!

My thoughts above in bold.

[vanhoop]

simple solution would be to take both season tickets if your kid cant go. Then they know you are not getting an adult in on the ticket.

The club should be wanting a body on the seat instead of worrying about how much thier losing on the punters that pay up front.interest on our dough alone should pay for the odd tickle surely?

[kron-1664]

simple solution would be to take both season tickets if your kid cant go. Then they know you are not getting an adult in on the ticket.

[SussexR]

This is to do with the stoke game where alot of people missed the first 10 .c'mon Nick ,I sit lower loft with my kids and swear myself. old teacher of mine used to say do think your at a football match calm down ya long haired bay city roller looking ####.tried to slash him twice,what has happened to parents today? Taking adults in on a kids ticket, never happened in my day .we used to bunk in behind the hot dog van on sa rd.would love to have my kids know the 80,s way.gone all health and safety these days xx

Good memories. In the 70's I used to climb over a back garden wall in Loftus Road. Saved about 25p per game!!!!!!

If you do agree with my view vanhoop please send an email of support. We need as many as possible.

[SussexR]

With you on this one Tblock.

Its a family stand for a reason.... If prices are cheaper in this end and you can get in without a kid its only going to be a matter of time (if not already) before it becomes just another part of the stadium - swearing etc stuff that 'families' dont want their young kids hearing/seeing.

Hear what you say but it's not about price. Remember as a Season Ticket holder I have already met the requirement of a family group, but it cannot be right that if for whatever reason the child in our group cannot attend cannot attend, that neither can the other ticket holders.

The rules state that to buy tickets an adult cannot buy on his own. I've no problem with that. As for swearing that's up to the stewards to police and deal with (but of course they don't) however the family stand has been located right next to the R block (great idea) and it is a football match after all. Not that I condone swearing in front of kids, because I don't and never would.

Not much more I can say to persuade you that it's an injustice, but I still ask anyone who agrees with me to send an email of support. It would be greatly appreciated by a lot of Lower Loft Season Ticket holders who will be harmed by this.

Thanks for listening(reading) either way though, differing opinions are healthy I guess.

[vanhoop]

With you on this one Tblock.

Its a family stand for a reason.... If prices are cheaper in this end and you can get in without a kid its only going to be a matter of time (if not already) before it becomes just another part of the stadium - swearing etc stuff that 'families' dont want their young kids hearing/seeing.

This is to do with the stoke game where alot of people missed the first 10 .c'mon Nick ,I sit lower loft with my kids and swear myself. old teacher of mine used to say do think your at a football match calm down ya long haired bay city roller looking ####.tried to slash him twice,what has happened to parents today? Taking adults in on a kids ticket, never happened in my day .we used to bunk in behind the hot dog van on sa rd.would love to have my kids know the 80,s way.gone all health and safety these days xx

[JudoRanger]

I agree with the OP. Firstly, A family shouldn't just be a group with a child. Secondly, how can the club expect fans to inform them that their child cannot make a game in advance? Do they not understand children often decide at the last minute, or are ill on the day of the game?

Fully support any action against this rule. I hope there are many others who feel the same way.