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Thread: So are we fans of empires or not?

  1. #16


    Originally Posted by Hove Ranger
    For an empire (In the way we recognise the term) to thrive there has to be domination/exploitation. So it depends how that sits with you. It also has distinct military connotations. Comes from the Latin Imperium

    Also democracy isn't a legacy of European Empires
    It is in India and many African states Hovis....

  2. #17


    But the idea of democracy predates any european empire

  3. #18


    Originally Posted by Hove Ranger
    But the idea of democracy predates any european empire
    That wasn't my point mate, what I said was that the empires left that legacy.... which they did.

  4. #19

    Default The rise and fall of the latest iteration

    In this case the American Empire.

    One of the main roles of art is to be a reflection of society.

    Don Henley expressed the rise and fall of the North American empire in two allegorical classics, recorded 30 years apart.

    The first was called 'The Last Resort', depicting the rise:

    "The Last Resort"

    She came from Providence,
    the one in Rhode Island
    Where the old world shadows hang
    heavy in the air
    She packed her hopes and dreams
    like a refugee
    Just as her father came across the sea

    She heard about a place people were smilin'
    They spoke about the red man's way,
    and how they loved the land
    And they came from everywhere
    to the Great Divide
    Seeking a place to stand
    or a place to hide

    Down in the crowded bars,
    out for a good time,
    Can't wait to tell you all,
    what it's like up there
    And they called it paradise
    I don't know why
    Somebody laid the mountains low
    while the town got high

    Then the chilly winds blew down
    Across the desert
    through the canyons of the coast,
    to the Malibu
    Where the pretty people play,
    hungry for power
    to light their neon way
    and give them things to do

    Some rich men came and raped the land,
    Nobody caught 'em
    Put up a bunch of ugly boxes,
    and Jesus people bought 'em
    And they called it paradise
    The place to be
    They watched the hazy sun, sinking in the sea

    You can leave it all behind
    and sail to Lahaina
    just like the missionaries did, so many years ago
    They even brought a neon sign said "Jesus is coming"
    Brought the white man's burden down
    Brought the white man's reign

    Who will provide the grand design?
    What is yours and what is mine?
    'Cause there is no more new frontier
    We have got to make it here

    We satifsy our endless needs
    and justify our bloody deeds,
    in the name of destiny
    and in the name of God

    And you can see them there,
    On Sunday morning
    Stand up and sing about
    What it's like up there
    They call it paradise
    I don't know why
    You call someplace paradise,
    kiss it goodbye


    And the second was called 'Long Road Out Of Eden', depicting the fall:

    Eagles - Long Road Out of Eden by ariefb

    "Long Road Out Of Eden"

    Moon shining down through the palms
    Shadows moving on the sand
    Somebody whispering the twenty-third psalm
    Dusty rifle in his trembling hands

    Somebody trying just to stay alive
    He got promises to keep
    Over the ocean in america
    Far away and fast asleep

    Silent stars blinking in the blackness of an endless sky
    Cold silver satellites, ghostly caravans passing by
    Galaxies unfolding, new worlds being born
    Pilgrims and prodigals creeping toward the dawn
    But it's a long road out of eden

    Music blasting from an suv
    On a bright and sunny day
    Rolling down the interstate
    In the good ol' usa

    Having lunch at the petroleum club
    Smokin' fine cigars and swappin' lives
    He said: "gimme 'nother slice o' that barbecued brisket!"
    "gimme 'nother piece o' that pecan pie!"

    Freeways flickering, cell phones chiming a tune
    We're riding to utopia, road map says we'll be arriving soon
    Captains of the old order clinging to the reins
    Assuring us these aches inside are only growing pains
    But it's a long road out of eden

    Back home i was so certain
    The path was very clear
    But now i have to wonder: "what are we doing here?"
    I'm not counting on tomorrow
    And i can't tell wrong from right
    But i'd give anything to be there in your arms tonight

    Weaving down the american highway
    Through the litter and the wreckage and the cultural junk
    Bloated with entitlement, loaded on propaganda
    And now we're driving dazed and drunk

    Been down the road to damascus,
    The road to mandalay
    Met the ghost of caesar on the appian way
    He said, "it's hard to stop this bingeing, once you get a taste."
    "but the road to empire is a bloody stupid waste."

    Behold the bitten apple - the power of the tools
    But all the knowledge in the world is of no use to fools
    And it's a long road out of eden....


    If art, all art, is concerned with truth, then a society in denial will not find much use for it.

    If art reflects life, it does so with special mirrors.

  5. #20


    Love it Stan.

  6. #21


    Originally Posted by Hubble
    Love it Stan.
    Thanks Hubs.

    Henley was a master of allegory in lyrics IMO.

    Not a bad singer and drummer either


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