Petrasso - Doughty - I dont get it

[Tarbie]

Must say I've not seen Luongo pulling up any trees,he has some good touches not really creative enough, has bits of goods games, fades, doesnt score, enough, to say he's one of the best in the league is strechting it, haven't seen him really impose himself in games, or be consistanly be the stand out player

Not one of the best in the league by a long stretch on what we've seen so far. That said, I think there is a lot more to come from him.

I thought we were, on the whole, very poor in the middle of the park last season. Personally I just don't think we had it set up right. Faurlin, as much as I love the bloke, hasn't had much mobility in him at all since the first knee injury, let alone the 2nd and the 3rd. Then Karl Henry is very limited, Tozser is useless at everything but set pieces and everyone else we had playing regular in there were kids, and I include Luongo in that.

For me, I think Luongo probably needs a workhorse next to him to allow him to be creative, make forward runs and support our forwards. I'm hoping he will come into his own with Cousins in there with him!

[nasser95]

Not one of the best in the league by a long stretch on what we've seen so far. That said, I think there is a lot more to come from him.

I thought we were, on the whole, very poor in the middle of the park last season. Personally I just don't think we had it set up right. Faurlin, as much as I love the bloke, hasn't had much mobility in him at all since the first knee injury, let alone the 2nd and the 3rd. Then Karl Henry is very limited, Tozser is useless at everything but set pieces and everyone else we had playing regular in there were kids, and I include Luongo in that.

For me, I think Luongo probably needs a workhorse next to him to allow him to be creative, make forward runs and support our forwards. I'm hoping he will come into his own with Cousins in there with him!

Luongo played his best football last season with Ale Faurlin alongside him who he know would just sit and win the ball. His dribbling is really something special at this level and his eye for a pass is great. People calling him lightweight haven't watched him play as the guy goes in for every challenge and usually comes out on top. Here's some facts to add to it:

So only 4 midfielders in the league have attempted more tackles per game than Mass last season and only 2 midfielders won more tackles last season than him. Only 8 players made more interceptions per game than him last season in midfield and only Beram Kayal blocked more passes than him in midfield last season. Only Alou Diarra made more clearances than him last season and only Ryan Tunnicliffe and Stephen Gleeson gave away fewer fouls than him, made more impressive by the amount of tackles he attempted. That's just looking defensively...

Offensively, only 3 players attempted to beat a man with a dribble more than luongo and none of those 3 had a better success rate than him. Only 3 players were involved in more aerial duels than him and only 4 won more aerial duels than him so he can definitely hold his own in the air. Only 7 centre mids attempted more key passes than him last season but that's considering crosses and set pieces. If we just look at open play passes and through balls from central positions, only Tom Cairney is ahead of him in creating key chances for his team mates.

And these stats just confirm what I see with my own eyes every game. The guy holds on to the ball and runs past players like they weren't there. He doesn't get into the box because he knows he can't finish, we've seen that, but that's not what he's supposed to do. He's a centre mid who plays to win the ball and carry it forward himself to open space for his team mates. What he needs next to him is someone who can do the same job as him and rotate regularly, which is where Cousins comes in. These two are fairly similar in their defensive style but Luongo has the edge offensively as it stands. Together, they can probably create enough chances that our limited quality strikeforce can eventually put away.

[Tarbie]

Luongo played his best football last season with Ale Faurlin alongside him who he know would just sit and win the ball. His dribbling is really something special at this level and his eye for a pass is great. People calling him lightweight haven't watched him play as the guy goes in for every challenge and usually comes out on top. Here's some facts to add to it:

So only 4 midfielders in the league have attempted more tackles per game than Mass last season and only 2 midfielders won more tackles last season than him. Only 8 players made more interceptions per game than him last season in midfield and only Beram Kayal blocked more passes than him in midfield last season. Only Alou Diarra made more clearances than him last season and only Ryan Tunnicliffe and Stephen Gleeson gave away fewer fouls than him, made more impressive by the amount of tackles he attempted. That's just looking defensively...

Offensively, only 3 players attempted to beat a man with a dribble more than luongo and none of those 3 had a better success rate than him. Only 3 players were involved in more aerial duels than him and only 4 won more aerial duels than him so he can definitely hold his own in the air. Only 7 centre mids attempted more key passes than him last season but that's considering crosses and set pieces. If we just look at open play passes and through balls from central positions, only Tom Cairney is ahead of him in creating key chances for his team mates.

And these stats just confirm what I see with my own eyes every game. The guy holds on to the ball and runs past players like they weren't there. He doesn't get into the box because he knows he can't finish, we've seen that, but that's not what he's supposed to do. He's a centre mid who plays to win the ball and carry it forward himself to open space for his team mates. What he needs next to him is someone who can do the same job as him and rotate regularly, which is where Cousins comes in. These two are fairly similar in their defensive style but Luongo has the edge offensively as it stands. Together, they can probably create enough chances that our limited quality strikeforce can eventually put away.

In a round about way you are confirming my point there Nas.

Personally, to get the best out of Luongo, I think you need to relieve him of his defensive duties a bit and allow him to express himself. Because our midfield was on the whole, massively immobile last season, I don't think he's had a chance to do that!

[1cliveallen]

stats can be twisted to suit arguments... just looked at his stats on a site says 6 assists in 26 games 3 yellow cards 2 headers won weak in passing and finishing.

[bradrangers]

How can anyone be getting on this kids back?

- Stepped up to the championship with ease
- Was dropped in and out of the side with each managerial change
- Played in an inconsistent partnership all season
- One minute he was played in the hole and the next game he was dropped deeper

This kid is the least of our worries. I sometimes wonder how fans expect players to progress sometimes when they are constantly on their backs. Mass has bags of potential and I think that him and cousins will compliment each other well next season. Give him the chance to fulfill it.

[Cjskinz]

Luongo is not a CAM. He is a CM. Should never have been played there.

Passing is great, work rate is great, tackling is decent enough when he's asked to do the "dirty work" as JFH puts it. Luongo nicks the ball from opposition, doesn't fly in to tackles like Diakite.

The boy was travelling to Australia and back playing all the time. No wonder he wasnt 100% every game.

Not the finished article, but no one in the team is!

[nasser95]

stats can be twisted to suit arguments... just looked at his stats on a site says 6 assists in 26 games 3 yellow cards 2 headers won weak in passing and finishing.

Yep that's whoscored.com... He doesn't pass that much, hence the weakness, he releases when in the final third... but you do enjoy ignoring all the strengths which explain the passing weakness: Tackling (very strong), defensive contribution (very strong), Dribbling (strong), Interceptions (strong)

Then they have his style of play underneath which says: Likes to Tackle, Likes to Dribble...

I did say his finishing was poor but who cares, he's a centre mid, if he's setting up the guys in front of him and winning the ball back, he's doing his job. None of our players last season had above 81% Passing and the reason was probably a lack of movement in general and the propensity to play long passes more often... This is the difference between the raw stats and the analytics. Everything has context.

[nasser95]

Luongo is not a CAM. He is a CM. Should never have been played there.

Passing is great, work rate is great, tackling is decent enough when he's asked to do the "dirty work" as JFH puts it. Luongo nicks the ball from opposition, doesn't fly in to tackles like Diakite.

The boy was travelling to Australia and back playing all the time. No wonder he wasnt 100% every game.

Not the finished article, but no one in the team is!

Absolutely 100% this... he does every job asked of him well and travels like no one in the side. Should be a regular next season alongside Cousins.

[nasser95]

In a round about way you are confirming my point there Nas.

Personally, to get the best out of Luongo, I think you need to relieve him of his defensive duties a bit and allow him to express himself. Because our midfield was on the whole, massively immobile last season, I don't think he's had a chance to do that!

I definitely agree with your final point, but I do disagree with him not needing defensive duties. He thrives on constant movement. To get the best out of him, you need mobility and I don't think it's about stopping him defending, but rather getting him the right support around him who can move the ball up. Ale could do that with his passing and I think cousins can do that with his movement. Having henry there will limit him.

[gator]

So how does anyone feel about Doughty and Petrasso?

[Norths]

Feel like Luongo has had a poor pre-season, but then that could apply to the majority tbf.

[Tarbie]

I definitely agree with your final point, but I do disagree with him not needing defensive duties. He thrives on constant movement. To get the best out of him, you need mobility and I don't think it's about stopping him defending, but rather getting him the right support around him who can move the ball up. Ale could do that with his passing and I think cousins can do that with his movement. Having henry there will limit him.

Opinions ain't it?

Personally I'd like to see him in that kind of Frank Lampard role. Not a creative number 10 like but an attack minded central midfielder who gets beyond the strikers at times.

I might be wrong, but I can see that type of player in him.

[nasser95]

Opinions ain't it?

Personally I'd like to see him in that kind of Frank Lampard role. Not a creative number 10 like but an attack minded central midfielder who gets beyond the strikers at times.

I might be wrong, but I can see that type of player in him.

Personally I think that's not the sort of player he is but I can't blame you for wanting him to be that guy, I think that sort of player would elevate any team. I see him being a relative quality version of Iniesta back in the day. That small guy who could do it all and had that bit of intellect. He wouldn't score much, but he'd do so much for the team it wouldn't matter. That's why I loved him with Faurlin last season, it was like seeing our own loftus road versions of Xavi and Iniesta.

[hal9thou]

Luongo is by no means surplus to requirements. He is very dependent on exactly what job he is being asked to do and - of course - the quality around him. And this is the real problem. A creative 10 / ATM who can see a bit of space and get people benefitting from it is the key requirement for me, above all others. I've no idea who could provide this service and fill a yawning gap with the paltry war chest available.

I still think we have set up / tactical issues, we're embarrassingly easy to defend against and have no pace in transition, but JFH must be aware of these shortcomings. We'll see what he proposes to do about it given the resources available.