The Rooney Rule

[bakes8]

With the owners of the clubs in this country now from all over the world, why would there be 'institutionalized racism' from within football? Sounds like a 70's and 80's problem to me.

Best people for the best job... And best interviewees for the best jobs. If any owner found guilty of racism then yeh, throw the book at the clowns. But interviewing to a quota is racism itself imo.

[QPR Richard]

With the owners of the clubs in this country now from all over the world, why would there be 'institutionalized racism' from within football? Sounds like a 70's and 80's problem to me.

Best people for the best job... And best interviewees for the best jobs. If any owner found guilty of racism then yeh, throw the book at the clowns. But interviewing to a quota is racism itself imo.

Agree with that.

[Macca]

blacks applying for vacant managers jobs are complaining, justifiably, that they are not even getting an interview, that clearly is not right

I agree if their good enough they should be in with a fair shout of getting the job.

[brightonr]

Sorry Nasser, but you are so wrong.

Why is it only football that is supposedly "institutionally racist"? Or is it only the position of "manager" that it applies to?

I expect you do your own job perfectly well. And I expect you were given the opportunity because you were seen as a good candidate and well suited to the role.

Were you interviewed as a token gesture and got lucky, or did you just impress at the interview? My money would be on the latter.

And as I pointed out on another thread, what would happen if a "black man" were to be interviewed for every single job in future and failed to get the job?

Would we be allowed to assume that the hirer thought that there was a better candidate, or would we need to look for another conspiracy theory to account for it? Oh yes, I can see it now. The "token black" selected for interview was only chosen because his credentials would not be as good as one of the other interviewees. Obviously done to avoid hiring a black mananger!

And furthermore, would that indicate that black managers were no good, simply because they were overlooked in favour of someone else. Well no, of course it wouldn't.

As almost everyone on here agrees, the job should and does get given to the person those responsible for the appointments feel to be the best candidate. Notwithstanding the fact that in this industry, very often there is no interview process at all.

I'd be more concerned about whether or not those hiring managers had any idea at all to be fair. Let's face it, our previous managerial recruits were hardly inspiring, were they?

[Awin]

Nasser you beat me to it

Soccernomics reveals managers in fact have very little effect upon team results and that in the overriding majority of occasions are chosen

a) because they are ex pros
b) they are pr savvy
c) they look the part
d) to appease the fans

Little is go do with actual statistical ability thus clubs hire people that look like previously successful managers which in large part are white.

Interestingly managers like ruud gullit were more viewed as Dutch than black when appointed.

[nasser95]

Nasser you beat me to it

Soccernomics reveals managers in fact gave very little effect upon team results and that in The overriding majority of occasions are chosen
a) because they are ex pros
b) they are or savvy
c) they look the part
d) to appease the fans

Little is go do with actual statistical ability thus clubs hire people that look like previously successful managers which in large part are white.

Interestingly managers like ruud gullit were more viewed as Dutch than black when appointed.

100 percent correct.

[dsqpr]

Any policy that requires decisions to be made based on your race or ethnic background is racist. It is as simple as that. The so called "Rooney Rule" is a racist rule.

[nasser95]

Sorry Nasser, but you are so wrong.

Why is it only football that is supposedly "institutionally racist"? Or is it only the position of "manager" that it applies to?

I expect you do your own job perfectly well. And I expect you were given the opportunity because you were seen as a good candidate and well suited to the role.

Were you interviewed as a token gesture and got lucky, or did you just impress at the interview? My money would be on the latter.

And as I pointed out on another thread, what would happen if a "black man" were to be interviewed for every single job in future and failed to get the job?

Would we be allowed to assume that the hirer thought that there was a better candidate, or would we need to look for another conspiracy theory to account for it? Oh yes, I can see it now. The "token black" selected for interview was only chosen because his credentials would not be as good as one of the other interviewees. Obviously done to avoid hiring a black mananger!

And furthermore, would that indicate that black managers were no good, simply because they were overlooked in favour of someone else. Well no, of course it wouldn't.

As almost everyone on here agrees, the job should and does get given to the person those responsible for the appointments feel to be the best candidate. Notwithstanding the fact that in this industry, very often there is no interview process at all.

I'd be more concerned about whether or not those hiring managers had any idea at all to be fair. Let's face it, our previous managerial recruits were hardly inspiring, were they?

You would be overall right if your initial statement wasn't completely off the ball. The fact is that black managers are not interviewed in the first place. Many talented potential managers don't get the chance to impress because no one offers them an interview. The issue is simply that the process is done - as Awin stated - simply to find someone to front the club. To be the face of the club.

[Stanley]

Any policy that requires decisions to be made based on your race or ethnic background is racist. It is as simple as that. The so called "Rooney Rule" is a racist rule.

Ok, so as you're now broadening it out, for argument's sake let us assume an organisation is institutionally racist (any organisation, not just a footballing body). How would you then tackle that problem (which is what Rooney's Rule is attempting to achieve)?

[QPRNY]

I think it's about time this was properly debated, particularly given the ethnicity of QPR board members, DoF and head coach.

Reading this forum, it seems there's some misunderstanding about the The Rooney Rule. It is certainly not that a quota of job applicants from ethnic minorities have to actually be given jobs; but that a quota must at least be given the opportunity of a job interview.

The Rooney Rule was first introduced in the US for American Football in 2003 due to findings of institutional racism within the sport's industry WRT the hiring and firing of coaches from varied ethnic backgrounds.

Who is to say that similar types of issues have not been commonplace in the UK within the football industry? I'm white and don't work in the industry so I couldn't comment with any absolute authority. But we all know that both Les Ferdinand and Chris Ramsey are on record as saying they've had direct experience of it, having witnessed it, as well as being on the receiving end of it, and not just during their playing careers.

No polls needed for now, just a debate.

It's important to note that many times American Football clubs will interview a minority candidate to satisfy the rule and then hire their preferred choice shortly thereafter.

[Awin]

It's important to note that many times American Football clubs will interview a minority candidate to satisfy the rule and then hire their preferred choice shortly thereafter.

Many times is the key point but not always.

Also in NFL many black managers have since been hired due to the Rooney rule and been successful

[Ramsey is god]

I think the "problem" is that the majority of managers around now are white. The majority of clubs will always look to appoint a manger with previous experience.

Yes you will get the odd Gary Monk who walk in to a top end job, but the fact is, almost every other prem/championship side will have a manager who has been a manager elsewhere and thus has experience (us excluded obviously!)

Generally its the lower leagues where people get their fist jobs. It is then up to them to prove themselves and either get promoted up the leagues, ala Eddie Howe or impress that a bigger club wants you - Gus Poyet I don't think it will be too long until a championship side take J F Hasselbaink.

Fact is, it is a problem that has stemmed from 15-20 years ago and will take time to correct itself. Cant see it being an issue of race in today's world, more the fact that their just simply isn't that many black managers out there with decent enough experience, to warrant getting a big job.

People wanting Ramsey sacked because he is a "youth coach" ??

[californiahoop]

I dont even understand why Wayne got himself involved with all this black v white rubbish. If you go for a job and you are capable you will get the job.


#CanItBeTheColourOfMySkin

Loool

I haven't read all this thread as I suspect it will replicate all that has already been said, like race relations in all walks of life, things evolve with a little help, but the Rooney rule is a step to far, I would like to think things have evolved since Ricky Hill's day.

In time I believe all will be based on ability not the colour of a persons skin.

As for Ricky Hill, the first game ever played on the plastic pitch at LR was probably the best I ever saw, QPR vs Looton, great game!

[SM3 Ranger]

Lets be honest 30 odd years ago not many black players at the top level.... fast forward to now, bundles of them playing.
This growth in black players at the top level in turn will eventually filter into the management/coaching positions as more black players retire and get the experience and qualifications required.
Coaches selected for their quality not for quotas imho.

[AlamoR]

I live in the states and struggle withy the rule. All it does is get a minority coach to an interview. The owners have a shortlist and usually know who they want but a black coach still gets interviewed when he has no real chance. It is just a show. It's not because he's a minority it is because the team has someone better in mind. NFL is all about winning and if a black coach wins he'll get hired, if not he won't. The NFL has about 3-5 black HCs that I can think of right now but many more in AC positions.

I'm assuming the same applies in UK, best man gets the job but cant say. In the NFL about 15% of HCs are black. What is the percentage in England?