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Centre back pairing - still a real problem

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  • #16
    It is easy to blame the centre backs for conceding so many goals, but they and the keeper have done a lot of good. They are constantly placed under massive pressure by the inability of the team as a whole to actually retain possession, anywhere on the pitch. The two goals on Saturday - the first came after we conceded cheap possession in midfield (Barton) and the second when Vargas gave it away in the final third. The mood for the first 20 minutes of conceding cheap possession was set in the very first minute when Fer put Albion on the counter attack with a sloppy pass. Those 3 players (Barton, Vargas and Fer) all have international credentials and should not be excused for persistent wasting of possession. Having said that, we never seem to have any fluidity in our team. I looked, time and time again, on Saturday for rotation and shape and never once saw triangles formed by movement or passing options created by overlaps etc. It needs work, Barton needs to be told to keep it simple and Vargas needs to learn that he can pass to team mates, even if they are not Chilean.
    #standuptocancer
    #inyourfacecancer

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    • #17
      Any one know how long sandro is out for ?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Bluehoop View Post
        It is easy to blame the centre backs for conceding so many goals, but they and the keeper have done a lot of good. They are constantly placed under massive pressure by the inability of the team as a whole to actually retain possession, anywhere on the pitch. The two goals on Saturday - the first came after we conceded cheap possession in midfield (Barton) and the second when Vargas gave it away in the final third. The mood for the first 20 minutes of conceding cheap possession was set in the very first minute when Fer put Albion on the counter attack with a sloppy pass. Those 3 players (Barton, Vargas and Barton) all have international credentials and should not be excused for persistent wasting of possession. Having said that, we never seem to have any fluidity in our team. I looked, time and time again, on Saturday for rotation and shape and never once saw triangles formed by movement or passing options created by overlaps etc. It needs work, Barton needs to be told to keep it simple and Vargas needs to learn that he can pass to team mates, even if they are not Chilean.
        When did Joey's brother start playing for us? :P
        "What stats allow you to do is not take things at face value. The idea that I trust my eyes more than the stats, I just don't buy that because I've seen magicians pull rabbits out of hats and I know I just know that rabbit's not in there." - Billy Beane

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Bluehoop View Post
          It is easy to blame the centre backs for conceding so many goals, but they and the keeper have done a lot of good. They are constantly placed under massive pressure by the inability of the team as a whole to actually retain possession, anywhere on the pitch. The two goals on Saturday - the first came after we conceded cheap possession in midfield (Barton) and the second when Vargas gave it away in the final third. The mood for the first 20 minutes of conceding cheap possession was set in the very first minute when Fer put Albion on the counter attack with a sloppy pass. Those 3 players (Barton, Vargas and Barton) all have international credentials and should not be excused for persistent wasting of possession. Having said that, we never seem to have any fluidity in our team. I looked, time and time again, on Saturday for rotation and shape and never once saw triangles formed by movement or passing options created by overlaps etc. It needs work, Barton needs to be told to keep it simple and Vargas needs to learn that he can pass to team mates, even if they are not Chilean.
          Exactly the point I was about to make.

          I don't think that our centre back options are anywhere near the best in the league but at the same time I think they are adequate. I think our poor defensive record comes back to an inability to retain possession of the football. Yesterday Barton and Fer were guilty of giving the ball away far too frequently in the first half.

          I think defensively we look far stronger with Sandro in the side but unfortunately I do also feel that with his injury record we will have to get used to not having him for quite a lot of the time!

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Yousef View Post
            We have let in the most number goals in the PL (32 goals). the next worse are Leicester (29 goals). So nobody can deny we need to sort our our defence regardless of the who's mistake. We must bring 1 or 2 defenders who will add something to the team to reduced the number of goals conceded or perhaps change tactics?

            Must replace Dunne who is getting older. Don't get me wrong he is doing really well but we can keep him on the bench.

            Caulker needs competition to up his game just like Green who has massively improved after signing McCarthy.
            Eight of those 32 in two games at Spurs and Man U..... Dunne has been outstanding in every home game he's played. Twenty four clearances on Saturday. WBA's first was a really well worked goal following a knock on at the near post. Little midfield cover for their second. Couldn't blame either CB for those goals. We need RB and LB cover or a better first choice. And the p ussy cat Sandro to start earning his wages by providing defensive cover.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by nasser95 View Post
              When did Joey's brother start playing for us? :P
              Sorry Nasser but think you will need to explain what you mean?
              #standuptocancer
              #inyourfacecancer

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Bluehoop View Post
                Sorry Nasser but think you will need to explain what you mean?
                (Barton, Vargas, Barton).

                You cannot blame just CB:s, our full backs were awful in the beginning of the season, as was Rio. I think we haven't made so many blatant errors after Isla learned to play right back, Yun got his chance and Dunne replaced Rio. Actually I have been quite pleased with Dunne and Caulker.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Timmy the Doc View Post
                  (Barton, Vargas, Barton).

                  You cannot blame just CB:s, our full backs were awful in the beginning of the season, as was Rio. I think we haven't made so many blatant errors after Isla learned to play right back, Yun got his chance and Dunne replaced Rio. Actually I have been quite pleased with Dunne and Caulker.
                  #standuptocancer
                  #inyourfacecancer

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by nasser95 View Post
                    well they use tackle success, interceptions, fouls, cards, offsides won, clearances and blocks.
                    I think Fer is part of the problem, what are the stats on him misplacing passes, giving the ball away and losing out in tackles nasser? I like to see him benched for a bit, with maybe Traore as a left winger (except now Yun is injured he'll probably be drafted in to play left back).

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                    • #25
                      Yuns okay.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Kevin Mcleod View Post
                        Yuns okay.
                        Oh. Good!

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Timmy the Doc View Post
                          (Barton, Vargas, Barton).

                          You cannot blame just CB:s, our full backs were awful in the beginning of the season, as was Rio. I think we haven't made so many blatant errors after Isla learned to play right back, Yun got his chance and Dunne replaced Rio. Actually I have been quite pleased with Dunne and Caulker.
                          We've been better since Reo has been out of the side no doubt but that period your'e talking about Rio was no worse or no better than Caulker or Onoura the m/field cover was non existence and none of the defenders were up to much

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by dogsrrs View Post
                            We've been better since Reo has been out of the side no doubt but that period your'e talking about Rio was no worse or no better than Caulker or Onoura the m/field cover was non existence and none of the defenders were up to much
                            I think Rio and Isla made the most visible mistakes.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by stainrodisalegend View Post
                              You make an interesting point - did not know caulker- dunne had the third best stats. But wd be interesred to know how those stats are compiled. After all, pretty well the only stat people look at with stikers is goals scored. Well i wd have thought a pretty good starting point to judge centre halves is goals conceded. And in that we are, as other posted have pointed out, bottom. Granted they have proably had more to do defensively than a lot of teams, but more goals conceded than Leicester?
                              Can make what ever arguement you want to from stats I prefer to trust what I see before my eyes

                              Would be interesting to see how many goals we conceded with Rio in the side for the games he played,that majority held him responsible for, in comparison to how many we have conceded since he has been out for same amount of games

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by West Acton View Post
                                Can make what ever arguement you want to from stats I prefer to trust what I see before my eyes

                                Would be interesting to see how many goals we conceded with Rio in the side for the games he played,that majority held him responsible for, in comparison to how many we have conceded since he has been out for same amount of games
                                It's a point I've made plenty of times (and been shot down for) West. Too many football fans these place all their faith in stats and reputations. Games aren't won by Opta stats or by how many international caps a player has, they are won and lost by what 11 men do over 90 minutes!

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