Centre back pairing - still a real problem

[stainrodisalegend]

Euphoria aside from the brilliant comeback, we have now let in 7 goals in three games. If it weren't for Charlie's incredible goal-scoring we would be really hurting. Rio Ferdinand took 90% of blame from fans for our early season defensive frailties but arguably our attacking play has improved out of all recognition while our central defensive work is hardly that much better from our opening games. Dunne beaten out of site to a regulation header by Lescott for the first and then Dunne and Caulker cut open - albeit to a brilliant run - for the second. As much as we need a striker to take pressure off Charlie, its massively important we get a better centre half imo. Dunne has battled like a warrior but is 34 odd and does have his lapses whilst Caulker looks very good in patches but I am still not convinced he looks like the £8m player we thought we had bought. Left and right back positions fine for me - Ned showed yesterday he is adequate cover for Isla - but in centre half we need a Ryan Shawcross type player. Easier identifying the problem than sourcing and financing the solution, I realise.

[nasser95]

Euphoria aside from the brilliant comeback, we have now let in 7 goals in three games. If it weren't for Charlie's incredible goal-scoring we would be really hurting. Rio Ferdinand took 90% of blame from fans for our early season defensive frailties but arguably our attacking play has improved out of all recognition while our central defensive work is hardly that much better from our opening games. Dunne beaten out of site to a regulation header by Lescott for the first and then Dunne and Caulker cut open - albeit to a brilliant run - for the second. As much as we need a striker to take pressure off Charlie, its massively important we get a better centre half imo. Dunne has battled like a warrior but is 34 odd and does have his lapses whilst Caulker looks very good in patches but I am still not convinced he looks like the £8m player we thought we had bought. Left and right back positions fine for me - Ned showed yesterday he is adequate cover for Isla - but in centre half we need a Ryan Shawcross type player. Easier identifying the problem than sourcing and financing the solution, I realise.

I honestly have to disagree there, think the goals have been unlucky in general, we didn't do much wrong for any of the everton goals, yesterday they got a goal from a clever one two and an avoidable corner routine. But Dunne and Caulker have been rated as the third best centre back pairing in the league this season overall. They honestly have done very little wrong and have defended excellently, especially Caulker who has some ridiculous acceleration. He will be captain one day in my opinion, the way he motivates the team when the ball goes out for a goal kick or throw in even, he is always there spurring the team on. Defensively, Dunne is smart and aware of his surroundings while Caulker is excellent on the slide tackle and in the air both have been dominant.

[dsqpr]

Euphoria aside from the brilliant comeback, we have now let in 7 goals in three games. If it weren't for Charlie's incredible goal-scoring we would be really hurting. Rio Ferdinand took 90% of blame from fans for our early season defensive frailties but arguably our attacking play has improved out of all recognition while our central defensive work is hardly that much better from our opening games. Dunne beaten out of site to a regulation header by Lescott for the first and then Dunne and Caulker cut open - albeit to a brilliant run - for the second. As much as we need a striker to take pressure off Charlie, its massively important we get a better centre half imo. Dunne has battled like a warrior but is 34 odd and does have his lapses whilst Caulker looks very good in patches but I am still not convinced he looks like the £8m player we thought we had bought. Left and right back positions fine for me - Ned showed yesterday he is adequate cover for Isla - but in centre half we need a Ryan Shawcross type player. Easier identifying the problem than sourcing and financing the solution, I realise.

I certainly agree that defensively we are very poor. I seem to be in a very small minority in saying this but I have been very unconvinced by Caulker. Always seems to be MIA or not sticking his head or boot in just when it is needed. Dunne has been a rock for me and without him we would be in much worse shape. That said, there is also merit to the argument that the midfield has not been doing a good job of providing defensive cover. We just seem to be all over the place as a unit and I think that comes down to coaching.

We are dead last in the Premier League in goals conceded with 32 from 17 matches. We simply cannot continue to ship two goals per match if we are to have any hope whatsoever of staying up.

[maidstone_hoop]

I agree that defensively we are still of par. I think Caulker has played very well most of the time but is prone to the odd mistake. Again very similar with Dunne but at 34 years old we need to be looking to the future.

I mentioned it on another thread and got shot down.. But a realistic defender who I personally think looks class would be the bloke form Bournemouth - Steve Cook. Reckon he would make the step up and again is one of these players who would leave it all on the pitch.

[Yousef]

We have let in the most number goals in the PL (32 goals). the next worse are Leicester (29 goals). So nobody can deny we need to sort our our defence regardless of the who's mistake. We must bring 1 or 2 defenders who will add something to the team to reduced the number of goals conceded or perhaps change tactics?

Must replace Dunne who is getting older. Don't get me wrong he is doing really well but we can keep him on the bench.

Caulker needs competition to up his game just like Green who has massively improved after signing McCarthy.

[Ablockhoop]

Just because we have conceded a lot of goals, it doesn't always mean it's the center halves/ goalkeepers thought. Ally of the goals we concede atm come from teams being allowed to freely run at our defence. As much as Henry is putting in a shift I think that when sandro gets back we will tighten up a lot as his tackle ratio per game is immense.

Also we give the ball away LOTS and playing Rio instead of Dunne would help ball retention.

Caulker I think has been our third best player this season behind Austin and green

[WeAreQPR12]

Just because we have conceded a lot of goals, it doesn't always mean it's the center halves/ goalkeepers thought. Ally of the goals we concede atm come from teams being allowed to freely run at our defence. As much as Henry is putting in a shift I think that when sandro gets back we will tighten up a lot as his tackle ratio per game is immense.

Also we give the ball away LOTS and playing Rio instead of Dunne would help ball retention.

Caulker I think has been our third best player this season behind Austin and green

Caulker has the potential to be world class. He has decent pace for a big man and he is composed on the ball. He is also a baby for a centre half and will just get better. Dunne made a mistake but the bloke has been superb and these 2 are certainly good enough and our best 2. Dunne is the leader and caulker certainly isn't captain material like some suggest. Cardiff got that one wrong in their relegation season. Also dunne played a huge part in our 2nd with a superb header that hit the bar which included great work from zamora to give austin his 2nd. Conceding goals isn't all about the centre half. Away from home they're under siege because we don't get any possession and you could put in kompany and see the bloke stretched. I like Barton but he has been blamed for defensive mistakes so neef to look at it as a team and be lesd narrow minded

[dogsrrs]

Both Dunne and Caulker had good games yet we let in 2 quick goals is it a lack of a real captain an organizer at the back or is it a lack of midfield cover , could it be Dunne and Caulker are just not a tuned in partership , I think H brought Reo in thinking he would be the one to organize things at the back but he cant get in the side

[Factamondo]

yes the center of defence is a concern but our defensive midfield cover is non existant my friends!

[maidstone_hoop]

yes the center of defence is a concern but our defensive midfield cover is non existant my friends!

Its a very good point Facto. I love Barton and his attitude but I have to be honest and say his general play is not up to standard. I believe him and Henry can do the job until the end of the season but again put sensitivities aside this area needs to be looked at.

Its the same with hill and to a degree with Dunne, we need new players in this position to progress.

[Yousef]

yes the center of defence is a concern but our defensive midfield cover is non existant my friends!

Barton and Fer have given the ball away many times. It needs addressing as well.

Agree with Ablockhoop regarding Sandro. I think he is better than Barton.

[stainrodisalegend]

I honestly have to disagree there, think the goals have been unlucky in general, we didn't do much wrong for any of the everton goals, yesterday they got a goal from a clever one two and an avoidable corner routine. But Dunne and Caulker have been rated as the third best centre back pairing in the league this season overall. They honestly have done very little wrong and have defended excellently, especially Caulker who has some ridiculous acceleration. He will be captain one day in my opinion, the way he motivates the team when the ball goes out for a goal kick or throw in even, he is always there spurring the team on. Defensively, Dunne is smart and aware of his surroundings while Caulker is excellent on the slide tackle and in the air both have been dominant.

You make an interesting point - did not know caulker- dunne had the third best stats. But wd be interesred to know how those stats are compiled. After all, pretty well the only stat people look at with stikers is goals scored. Well i wd have thought a pretty good starting point to judge centre halves is goals conceded. And in that we are, as other posted have pointed out, bottom. Granted they have proably had more to do defensively than a lot of teams, but more goals conceded than Leicester?

[nasser95]

You make an interesting point - did not know caulker- dunne had the third best stats. But wd be interesred to know how those stats are compiled. After all, pretty well the only stat people look at with stikers is goals scored. Well i wd have thought a pretty good starting point to judge centre halves is goals conceded. And in that we are, as other posted have pointed out, bottom. Granted they have proably had more to do defensively than a lot of teams, but more goals conceded than Leicester?

well they use tackle success, interceptions, fouls, cards, offsides won, clearances and blocks.

[stainrodisalegend]

well they use tackle success, interceptions, fouls, cards, offsides won, clearances and blocks.

But not goals conceded? Hence the cliche "lies, damn lies and statistics"!

[Ablockhoop]

Barton is not a natural defensive midfielder. Barton is a all action midfielder. He has the energy to get forward and also grafts back. His natural position is a box to box midfielder. That's why sandro comes in handy. He is a holding mid. Does not a lot else other than sweep up and around his team mates. Wins the ball and releases it. They will work really really well together...

Football teams are all about the right balance, sandro and barton would leave our defence far less exposed.