English and proud of it.

[SANDERSON8]

Me?

Yes

[DeepcutHoop]

Yes

Like blood from a stone this........

How exactly have I shot myself in the foot?

[Factamondo]

wow i never expected this thread to go all question time!

[vanhoop]

90% come to London on the sponge.deepcut are you a traffic warden with a guide dog...ill be coming back as a one legged black lesbian.before the pc start that's a quote from a black mate of mine

[DeepcutHoop]

90% come to London on the sponge.deepcut are you a traffic warden with a guide dog...ill be coming back as a one legged black lesbian.before the pc start that's a quote from a black mate of mine

No, funnily enough I'm not.

I just am utterly unconvinced that the government has shipped in millions of immigrants to deliberately dilute the 'Anglo-Saxon' population (nothing smacks more of the BNP/EDl than use of this term, because they know it's too obvious to say 'white'). However if there is proof that the government did that, I'll happily accept that they did. As it is, it's just another 'Broken Britain'-esque
sound bite which just seems paranoid.

Again, it's easy to have your view skewed by the cities (understandably), which have always been where the immigrants tend to coalesce, because it's where the most work (usually) is, and the poorest areas (and by association the cheapest accommodation). It then becomes a 'safe' place, with people from the same cultures and backgrounds grouping together, again understandably. As you move generations down the line, they will settle into British life, become more 'accepted' by the rest of the population, and the new set of socially reviled immigrants will take their place and will take the blame for the ills of the world. The Irish and the Afro-Carribean communities went through these stages, and the Indian Sikh community is probably a little further down the road than say the Turkish and Pakistani muslims etc (the religious extremists have not helped this, and that's something I have other issues with).

Yes, there's place for a debate about the immigration laws, and the illegal/non-illegal immigrant line is blurred massively, the media doesn't help here (on either side). There are also spongers of all creeds and colours, all over the country, and again the benefits system may need addressing.

I refuse to believe that 90% of people that come to this country, do so to 'sponge'. If you have facts and figures to back that up, I'll accept it, but I'll be damned surprised as I do it.

[DeepcutHoop]

Watching the Jeremy Paxman series about the Empire was eye-opening to say the least. I considered myself relatively well versed on our history but the details of how we treated people in their own countries was extremely unpleasant.

Did YOU treat people like that? I didn't. So why the guilt trip for the actions of others?

I didn't say I felt guilty, I don't. I also don't feel pride at the achievements of the great Englishmen of the past, as I didn't do that either. I abhor the bad things we did, and admire and appreciate the good things are ancestors have done. (also, alliteration appeals )

Knowing our history is very important, it helps us to understand who we are, and how we are viewed by the rest of the world.

We should never just forget the past as done and now irrelevant, it should always inform the decisions we make and the way we treat other people.

[Nik29]

To everyone saying how England's the best country in the world etc.

One question: Why is it?

Don't get me wrong I'm proud of my roots etc, but compare England for quality of life with somewhere like say Germany, and I'm sorry but there is no comparison.

[vanhoop]

So deepcut what do somalians contribute to this country,? Living on London I csm honestly say I've never seen one working

No, funnily enough I'm not.

I just am utterly unconvinced that the government has shipped in millions of immigrants to deliberately dilute the 'Anglo-Saxon' population (nothing smacks more of the BNP/EDl than use of this term, because they know it's too obvious to say 'white'). However if there is proof that the government did that, I'll happily accept that they did. As it is, it's just another 'Broken Britain'-esque
sound bite which just seems paranoid.

Again, it's easy to have your view skewed by the cities (understandably), which have always been where the immigrants tend to coalesce, because it's where the most work (usually) is, and the poorest areas (and by association the cheapest accommodation). It then becomes a 'safe' place, with people from the same cultures and backgrounds grouping together, again understandably. As you move generations down the line, they will settle into British life, become more 'accepted' by the rest of the population, and the new set of socially reviled immigrants will take their place and will take the blame for the ills of the world. The Irish and the Afro-Carribean communities went through these stages, and the Indian Sikh community is probably a little further down the road than say the Turkish and Pakistani muslims etc (the religious extremists have not helped this, and that's something I have other issues with).

Yes, there's place for a debate about the immigration laws, and the illegal/non-illegal immigrant line is blurred massively, the media doesn't help here (on either side). There are also spongers of all creeds and colours, all over the country, and again the benefits system may need addressing.

I refuse to believe that 90% of people that come to this country, do so to 'sponge'. If you have facts and figures to back that up, I'll accept it, but I'll be damned surprised as I do it.

[vanhoop]

[QUOTE=Nik29;881848]To everyone saying how England's the best country in the world etc.

One question: Why is it?

Don't get me wrong I'm proud of my roots etc, but compare England for quality of life with somewhere like say Germany, and I'm sorry but there is no compa

Have you explored England? Or stayed in the one place and made assumptions.

[DeepcutHoop]

So deepcut what do somalians contribute to this country,? Living on London I csm honestly say I've never seen one working

No idea, I've never knowingly met anyone from Somalia, or have knowledge of any of their work (or otherwise) history.

My point previously about facts still stands. Anecdotal evidence certainly should be taken into account, but it's always going to carry it's own bias, and should be treated accordingly. I don't think any of us can just make a sweeping generalisation about any group of people, let alone one you aren't part of. Well, you can, but shouldn't be surprised if it is disregarded out of hand.

[vanhoop]

No idea, I've never knowingly met anyone from Somalia, or have knowledge of any of their work (or otherwise) history.

My point previously about facts still stands. Anecdotal evidence certainly should be taken into account, but it's always going to carry it's own bias, and should be treated accordingly. I don't think any of us can just make a sweeping generalisation about any group of people, let alone one you aren't part of. Well, you can, but shouldn't be surprised if it is disregarded out of hand.

Obviously not a Londoner and an outsider with tinpot views.bit like a social worker trying to help a kid but not really lived it themselves

[vanhoop]

No idea, I've never knowingly met anyone from Somalia, or have knowledge of any of their work (or otherwise) history.

My point previously about facts still stands. Anecdotal evidence certainly should be taken into account, but it's always going to carry it's own bias, and should be treated accordingly. I don't think any of us can just make a sweeping generalisation about any group of people, let alone one you aren't part of. Well, you can, but shouldn't be surprised if it is disregarded out of hand.

Obviously not a Londoner and an outsider with tinpot views.bit like a social worker trying to help a kid but not really lived it themselves

[DeepcutHoop]

So because I'm not a Londoner, my views are just to be dismissed as tinpot?
I was born in Carshalton, and I grew up in Slough ffs, not on a country estate with servants and a nanny.

"Outsider", you make it sound so sodding dramatic.

[vanhoop]

I would disagree with your views if you come from timbucktoo.your not living it now so you don't know and shouldn't comment.good and bad in every colour,but somalians are the vultures of the human race

[DeepcutHoop]

Up to you, you're entitled to your views. It's disappointing you'd just dismiss mine, purely because I don't have the same background/current situation but it's no skin off my nose.