Westminster / Manchester / London Bridge / Parsons Green attacks

[brightonr]

That would depend on what you would be innocent of exactly. And if need be, the legal definition of 'innocent' would need some serious revision with regard to any form of extreme Islamic behaviour, including just the rhetorical type.

That's a good point mate. Let's get it changed along with bringing back the death penalty for terrorists.

Can't see Diane going for it though.

[Tarbie]

The vast majority of people, on here or not, can definitely see the difference mate. Rather sadly and if you were here more of the time you would understand, there are far too many willing to defend almost anything, not just islamic terrorists.

Two problems with Hubble's solution. One is that unfortunately our laws dictate that you are innocent until proven guilty. The other of course is we can't deport British nationals.

Non-Brits I would agree that if they have put themselves in a position to be on a list, send them back immediately.
Solitary confinement in purpose built basic cell blocks for the Brits we can't deport. Same would apply to close family of either grouping.

Anybody guilty of even the slightest of involvement would be sitting in the electric chair for a short while before being tossed into a landfill site if I had my way, but then again I'm not renowned for my patience.

Look, I get it mate. I hate the PC brigade as much as anyone, and it's part of the reason I choose not to live in the UK any more. I'd love to see us have a lot more national pride and feel less embarrassed about protecting our culture and all the things that make Britain great.

That said, I also despise right wing xenophobia. I fear that by choosing to blindly hate a whole religion and culture based on the actions of a few, we will actually be making the problem worse. ISIS are trying to drive a divide between the Muslim world and the West, forcing a "them and us" mentality on the world. And I'm sorry to say that huge parts of the Western world are walking straight into this trap.

I will also add that I've spent a lot of time in recent years reading up on the subject of Islamic terrorism, following the growth of ISIS and investigating the causes behind it all. Whilst this may not be a popular opinion, or something that you will read in the mainstream press, I will never disguise the fact that I believe that Western foreign policy is almost completely to blame for the current crisis. I know this is a view that Hubble shares and I applaud him for having the balls to talk about it.

[Stanley]

I believe that Western foreign policy is almost completely to blame for the current crisis.

Yes, Western foreign policy is certainly a major factor, particularly its morally bankrupt relationship with the Saudis. However to say that it is "almost completely" to blame I think is over-stretching it, because it dismisses the problems currently within Islam itself. Of course that's not to say Islam has everything to do with it, but it's also not saying that Islam has nothing to do with it.

When you have time I'd urge you to check out some of these videos of a former Jihadist in his youth, after which you may wish to revise your view. He has since devoted his entire life to challenging Islamic extremism and radicalisation from within his own religion, and how he places just as much responsibility on the need for Islam to reform itself (from within), as he does on Western foreign policy; in just the same way as older religions have benefited from going through their own reformations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2L4vqdQUFM

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...do-with-islam/

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...st-terrorists/

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...adicalisation/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gfH3qDgZms

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...stoning-women/

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...ing-blasphemy/

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...ir-face-veils/

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...stand-up-them/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU8o0CHlopo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPz_f-Nymx0

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...adicalisation/

[Tarbie]

Yes, Western foreign policy is certainly a major factor, particularly its morally bankrupt relationship with the Saudis. However to say that it is "almost completely" to blame I think is over-stretching it, because it dismisses the problems currently within Islam itself. Of course that's not to say Islam has everything to do with it, but it's also not saying that Islam has nothing to do with it.

When you have time I'd urge you to check out some of these videos of a former Jihadist in his youth, after which you may wish to revise your view. He has since devoted his entire life to challenging Islamic extremism and radicalisation from within his own religion, and how he places just as much responsibility on the need for Islam to reform itself (from within), as he does on Western foreign policy; in just the same way as older religions have benefited from going through their own reformations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2L4vqdQUFM

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...do-with-islam/

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...st-terrorists/

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...adicalisation/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gfH3qDgZms

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...stoning-women/

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...ing-blasphemy/

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...ir-face-veils/

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...stand-up-them/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU8o0CHlopo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPz_f-Nymx0

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...adicalisation/

This is the the guy that set up Quilliam, and for a short period worked with Tommy Robinson after he exited with EDL? Yeah, I've actually seen a lot of this guy already, although I will watch the links when I get time. He speaks a lot of sense from what I've seen of him!

[Stanley]

This is the the guy that set up Quilliam, and for a short period worked with Tommy Robinson after he exited with EDL? Yeah, I've actually seen a lot of this guy already, although I will watch the links when I get time. He speaks a lot of sense from what I've seen of him!

Yes, Majid Nawaz. He's highly educated and speaks a huge amount of sense. Not just him, but his colleagues at Quilliam too. No surprise he has to have security because of death threats he's received from Islamists. Well worth watching those links to give an insight into the great work he does. He has a regular weekend slot on LBC too.

[Tarbie]

Yes, Majid Nawaz. He's highly educated and speaks a huge amount of sense. Not just him, but his colleagues at Quilliam too. No surprise he has to have security because of death threats he's received from Islamists. Well worth watching those links to give an insight into the great work he does. He has a regular weekend slot on LBC too.

Not an easy path to walk though is it? Radical Islamist turned activist. Of course he's gonna have a fatwa or 2 against his name.

Fair play to him for what he's doing. Although I do struggle a bit with this whole idea of being radicalised and then de-radicalised. The guy was a leader within an Islamist group, and was involved in enough naughty stuff to end up in jail for 5 years. Part of me questions whether he would have ever stopped unless he'd been banged up. Very easy to see the error of your ways when you lose your freedom.

[Stanley]

Fair play to him for what he's doing. Although I do struggle a bit with this whole idea of being radicalised and then de-radicalised. The guy was a leader within an Islamist group, and was involved in enough naughty stuff to end up in jail for 5 years. Part of me questions whether he would have ever stopped unless he'd been banged up. Very easy to see the error of your ways when you lose your freedom.

You'd need to hear more about his story and the extraordinary transformation he underwent to get the full story. It happened when he was actually imprisoned in Egypt as a result of conversations he had with inmates there. Either way, since realising the errors of his past, this doesn't detract from the great work he's doing today and the message he's putting out, a few examples of which I posted above.

[Tarbie]

You'd need to hear more about his story and the extraordinary transformation he underwent to get the full story. It happened when he was actually imprisoned in Egypt as a result of conversations he had with inmates there. Either way, since realising the errors of his past, this doesn't detract from the great work he's doing today and the message he's putting out, a few examples of which I posted above.

I'll take a look mate. As I say, everything I've seen of him before he's spoken nothing but sense!

[Hove Ranger]

Fark Majid Nawaz and Quilliam. Just another fraud riding the Islamist wave to line his pockets, like his mate Ayaan Hirsi Ali. The fact he is the go to guy for anything on islam with the major US tv companies should set alarm bells ringing, nevermind his "perfect" backstory

[Stanley]

Fark Majid Nawaz and Quilliam. Just another fraud riding the Islamist wave to line his pockets, like his mate Ayaan Hirsi Ali. The fact he is the go to guy for anything on islam with the major US tv companies should set alarm bells ringing, nevermind his "perfect" backstory

That's a pretty cynical take on it Hove. Got anything concrete to back it up with? Genuinely interested.

[vanhoop]

That's a pretty cynical take on it Hove. Got anything concrete to back it up with? Genuinely interested.

Just a guess stan but I'd say money. Concrete enough ?

[Tarbie]

Just a guess stan but I'd say money. Concrete enough ?

So the suggestion is that this bloke has faked being an Islamic Fundamentalist that spent 5 years in prison before being deradicalised, in order to forge a career for himself as a political activist and TV personality, whist at the same time making himself a wanted man for most extreme Islamic groups on the planet.........seems ligit!

[Hove Ranger]

That's a pretty cynical take on it Hove. Got anything concrete to back it up with? Genuinely interested.

Cynical is one way of looking at it (if you support him). Not going to go in to his full history which is questioned by family and friends of his but the Quilliam/Tommy Robinson fallout was pretty damning for Quilliam and shown them for what they are. Plus he seems to have nuanced his and Quilliam's opinions over time to fall in line with societal narratives (particularly neocons) and coincidentally where the money is. Their complete 360 on Israel is the most damning. Who funds Quilliam? What about Quilliam U.S.? and the claim of separate entities? Who are the major contributors to Quilliam US? I'm sure you know all this

[Hubble]

Cynical is one way of looking at it (if you support him). Not going to go in to his full history which is questioned by family and friends of his but the Quilliam/Tommy Robinson fallout was pretty damning for Quilliam and shown them for what they are. Plus he seems to have nuanced his and Quilliam's opinions over time to fall in line with societal narratives (particularly neocons) and coincidentally where the money is. Their complete 360 on Israel is the most damning. Who funds Quilliam? What about Quilliam U.S.? and the claim of separate entities? Who are the major contributors to Quilliam US? I'm sure you know all this

Spot on the money as always Hovis.

[Tarbie]

Cynical is one way of looking at it (if you support him). Not going to go in to his full history which is questioned by family and friends of his but the Quilliam/Tommy Robinson fallout was pretty damning for Quilliam and shown them for what they are. Plus he seems to have nuanced his and Quilliam's opinions over time to fall in line with societal narratives (particularly neocons) and coincidentally where the money is. Their complete 360 on Israel is the most damning. Who funds Quilliam? What about Quilliam U.S.? and the claim of separate entities? Who are the major contributors to Quilliam US? I'm sure you know all this

I'm intrigued now.

I shall be reading up on the Quilliam Foundation this weekend!