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  • #16
    Originally posted by Stanley View Post

    Play him with proper wingers (which we never did under Ollie) then you don't have to play long balls up to him and you could still get 15 goals a season from him. It's always about playing players to their strengths. Furthermore his GPG ratio was still strong even when we never played him with out and out wingers. McClaren I'm confident is astute enough to understand that, and Smith's progress can no longer be stunted under him like it has been over the last couple of seasons.

    We should hopefully see other examples of this throughout the squad where players have been incorrectly utilised.
    Exactly you make my point was fault of Ollie more then the player

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    • #17
      Originally posted by maidstone_hoop View Post
      There’s no truth to the rumour! It came from a survey carried out by Millwal fans.
      he was just voted as one of your ideal top choices. QPR won’t sell him.

      To put it in perspective they done one for QPR and our top choice was Dwight Gayle. Not going to happen.
      Here's a link to the survey of QPR fans

      https://www.football.london/queens-p...sults-14727793

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      • #18
        I wouldn't want to see him go to be honest. If used correctly and regularly, he could quite easily get us 15 goals.
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        • #19
          Originally posted by West Acton View Post

          Think your getting lost in the conversation. I never suggested getting rid I actually said I would keep. The view was we played direct football with smith, which we did and I’m not complaining either just stating an opinion.

          You dont start with Smith up top alone and no wingers to play slick free flowing football??? but direct football was the philosophy of former manager
          I`m not getting lost in the conversation, i was merely pointing out about rumours of mclaren being interested in bringing martin here, so another target man, and we played bits of one touch football along with lumping it at times, mixing it up, we had players playing on the wings/channels but obviously not great wingers though.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by West Acton View Post

            Exactly you make my point was fault of Ollie more then the player
            I fully agree Wests. :-)

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            • #21
              What’s Martin got to do with it as far as we’re aware that could be simply rumour pure speculation. What we do know is Smith leads to us playing direct football especially because of the poor tactical awareness of ollie

              for all we know McLaren might play wingers and actually put crosses in the box playing to Smiths strength, time will tell

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              • #22
                Originally posted by West Acton View Post

                Exactly you make my point was fault of Ollie more then the player
                Just curious acton to how many great wingers we had at the club that should of been utilised?! im a fan of olimide but he was out on loan and suffered a injury setback, our polish winger when was upfront on the wing had lost form, who else do you know about who would of took us to another level with great wing play?! ......Even the young lad we got from blackpools better upfront than on the wing and didnt show anything.....

                Its all good saying the obvious about having wingers as i am pretty sure holloway would of known this being a ex midfielder, but we didnt have anyone good enough at the time hence others being put wider.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by West Acton View Post
                  What’s Martin got to do with it as far as we’re aware that could be simply rumour pure speculation. What we do know is Smith leads to us playing direct football especially because of the poor tactical awareness of ollie

                  for all we know McLaren might play wingers and actually put crosses in the box playing to Smiths strength, time will tell
                  Very true, also rumoured mclaren is in for a winger, if true kind of shows he hasnt much faith in the wingers we already have at the club if true.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Bobbydunc View Post

                    Just curious acton to how many great wingers we had at the club that should of been utilised?! im a fan of olimide but he was out on loan and suffered a injury setback, our polish winger when was upfront on the wing had lost form, who else do you know about who would of took us to another level with great wing play?! ......Even the young lad we got from blackpools better upfront than on the wing and didnt show anything.....

                    Its all good saying the obvious about having wingers as i am pretty sure holloway would of known this being a ex midfielder, but we didnt have anyone good enough at the time hence others being put wider.
                    But that was Olli`s fault because Wzsolek never really was a wing back.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Bobbydunc View Post

                      Just curious acton to how many great wingers we had at the club that should of been utilised?! im a fan of olimide but he was out on loan and suffered a injury setback, our polish winger when was upfront on the wing had lost form, who else do you know about who would of took us to another level with great wing play?! ......Even the young lad we got from blackpools better upfront than on the wing and didnt show anything.....

                      Its all good saying the obvious about having wingers as i am pretty sure holloway would of known this being a ex midfielder, but we didnt have anyone good enough at the time hence others being put wider.
                      The simple answer to that is we never got to find out because Ollie played the entire season without using conventional wingers. 3/4 of the season was with wingbacks, 1/4 was 4-3-3.

                      As Shania says, Pawel, when he was played as a winger the season before proved great value in that role. He only lost form when played out of a position. There is a massive difference in role between a winger and a wing-back.

                      BOS and Shodipo are other players who COULD have played that role but were never given the opportunity, because under Ollie it was always about the system, at the expensive of wedging square pegs into round holes. Ultimately he paid the price for that stubbornness and/or lack of foresight as it cost him his job. McClaren is tactically a more astute coach and would be very surprised if he'd make such basic errors as that.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Stanley View Post

                        The simple answer to that is we never got to find out because Ollie played the entire season without using conventional wingers. 3/4 of the season was with wingbacks, 1/4 was 4-3-3.

                        As Shania says, Pawel, when he was played as a winger the season before proved great value in that role. He only lost form when played out of a position. There is a massive difference in role between a winger and a wing-back.

                        BOS and Shodipo are other players who COULD have played that role but were never given the opportunity, because under Ollie it was always about the system, at the expensive of wedging square pegs into round holes. Ultimately he paid the price for that stubbornness and/or lack of foresight as it cost him his job. McClaren is tactically a more astute coach and would be very surprised if he'd make such basic errors as that.
                        BOS played there a couple of times and all of his performances proved he was`nt even ready yet, it was only towards the end of the season he showed very few glimpses of anything, apart from that did`nt shine at all, olimide was out on loan then injured, so theres two out of it!

                        Who next?! you can see the exact reason we did`nt have out and out wingers cos the choice was`nt great, Pavel had lost form regardless of being put in as wingback, you can see why holloway tried him there with a great engine, and in the end was actually good in that role, but agree id rather see him as just a winger but teaming up with furs.

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                        • #27
                          Hold up, so the argument is could not play wingers because we never had any (we did) but we ended up playing a system for season which requires wing backs when we did not actually have any

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Bobbydunc View Post
                            BOS played there a couple of times and all of his performances proved he was`nt even ready yet
                            Not really. Again, he was never given a decent run of games as a conventional winger to prove anything.

                            Originally posted by Bobbydunc View Post
                            it was only towards the end of the season he showed very few glimpses of anything, apart from that did`nt shine at all,
                            Sure, but was never played as a winger either. He did have a couple of decent games towards the end of the season and showed some good promise. Popped up with a goal too. So there is a player with potential there which a better coach could bring more out of.

                            Originally posted by Bobbydunc View Post
                            Pavel had lost form regardless of being put in as wingback,
                            Disagree again. He lost form and confidence (and eventually his place in the national side) because he was consistently played out of position. Clear direct correlation between the two events IMO.

                            Originally posted by Bobbydunc View Post
                            agree id rather see him as just a winger but teaming up with furs.
                            We can certainly agree on that.

                            Originally posted by West Acton View Post
                            Hold up, so the argument is could not play wingers because we never had any (we did) but we ended up playing a system for season which requires wing backs when we did not actually have any
                            Precisely mate. It's an illogical argument.


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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Stanley View Post

                              Not really. Again, he was never given a decent run of games as a conventional winger to prove anything.



                              Sure, but was never played as a winger either. He did have a couple of decent games towards the end of the season and showed some good promise. Popped up with a goal too. So there is a player with potential there which a better coach could bring more out of.



                              Disagree again. He lost form and confidence (and eventually his place in the national side) because he was consistently played out of position. Clear direct correlation between the two events IMO.



                              We can certainly agree on that.



                              Precisely mate. It's an illogical argument.

                              So you think then if we would of had Bos on the wing we would of been a top 10 side finishing wise?! Personally from what i saw he was very simular to mackie with not the best control, i would say looked clumsy & can understand exactly why he hasnt been regularly picked and if he was soo good at taking a man on and whipping a ball in, he would of been picked more regularly, but i take it youve seen something more than the coaching team & holloway saw in training every day.

                              And i made this point as regards to not using out and out wingers because apart from Pavel we did`nt have anyone shinning enough, but my preferred two to go with would definately be Pavel and olimide, and regards to Bos he only looked a little bit decent upfront in the middle when running at defence, but not on the wing in my opinion.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Bobbydunc View Post
                                So you think then if we would of had Bos on the wing we would of been a top 10 side finishing wise?!
                                No. I never said anything like that. I said we never got to find out because he was never given a consistent run as a conventional winger. i.e. never in a 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 with the role of getting to the byline and whipping in crosses (getting chalk on his boots as Shearer used to describe it) with the main purpose of supplying crosses to the target man Matt Smith (thus getting the best out of him too i.e more goals), which is what this thread is really about. Therefore all any of us can do is speculate on what MIGHT have been with him last season.

                                I agree with you about Pawel and Shodipo being even better options, but again Pawel hasn't played as a 'out and out' winger for us since the season before last.

                                Bottom line - let's just hope McClaren can address all these issues, and I'm personally quite confident he can.
                                Last edited by Stanley; 03-06-2018, 11:36 AM.

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