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Massimo Luongo is the best midfielder in the championship

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  • #61
    Originally posted by 1cliveallen View Post
    I'm sure Cairney, Saiz , Hoolahan, Lansbury and Hourihane might might have something to say about that.
    Last season, Luongo was 5th, Cairney 1st, Hoolahan 6th, Lansbury 17th, Hourihane 2nd

    Season before, Luongo was 1st, Lansbury 2nd

    I don't get where this idea was that he was inconsistent or not good, he's always been great and he's done a tonne more defensive work in the past. The thing is that we didn't have the creative spark who was being freed up by him because chery slowed everything down from open play. Now that Luongo is showing that he's a great offensive player, people are quick to lap praise onto Scowen who's just doing the job that Luongo did for two years already without any credit. I don't see anyone clamouring to complain about the fact that Scowen isn't scoring goals etc. His job in the side isn't to do that, same as how Luongo's wasn't to do that. Luongo's job was to win the ball and take it forward for the offensive players, which he did excellently, now his job is to win the ball, create, shoot, etc. Scowen's job now is to win the ball back and play it to the creative ones and he's lucky enough to have Freeman and Luongo to play to because it makes him look even better. If he had Chery or god knows who in front of him, fans would be quick to criticise his lack of attacking.
    "What stats allow you to do is not take things at face value. The idea that I trust my eyes more than the stats, I just don't buy that because I've seen magicians pull rabbits out of hats and I know I just know that rabbit's not in there." - Billy Beane

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    • #62
      Originally posted by stanistheman View Post
      yes, Luongo can do those things, but he was nowhere near as effective or consistent last season, because he didn't have Scowen or a player like him in midfield.
      For me and others, Scowen is the more useful midfielder because even without Luongo, the midfield can be effective and creative by playing some players like Freeman, Manning, Borysuik, Cousins and even Goss in midfield with him.
      That worked out in the cup matches didn't it? We created so much against Brentford and Northampton in the cup without Luongo.... Scowen has less work to do than most work horse midfielders because Luongo does that too, Freeman has less pressure to create because luongo does that too. Now we're even starting to see, the strikers have less work to do because Luongo shoots as well. He lets them do better at their jobs, by doing alot of it for them.
      "What stats allow you to do is not take things at face value. The idea that I trust my eyes more than the stats, I just don't buy that because I've seen magicians pull rabbits out of hats and I know I just know that rabbit's not in there." - Billy Beane

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      • #63
        I really dont know what we are all quibbling about. We have a player who according to transfer market is worth 4m and we paid 1.5m to Swindon for him.
        He may not be the best in the division but he sure is the form guy at the moment aided by the other 2 or not.
        And he is ours and loving him.

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        • #64
          Surely it's time for a change of avatar Nasser?

          I could suggest one if you're struggling.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by nasser95 View Post
            That worked out in the cup matches didn't it? We created so much against Brentford and Northampton in the cup without Luongo.... Scowen has less work to do than most work horse midfielders because Luongo does that too, Freeman has less pressure to create because luongo does that too. Now we're even starting to see, the strikers have less work to do because Luongo shoots as well. He lets them do better at their jobs, by doing alot of it for them.
            no one is saying that luongo hasn't been good this season but even you can admit hes playing far far better than he did last season due to having scowen alongside him. no ones taking anything away from luongo as hes been brilliant but you have to give credit to scowen for filling that void and allowing luongo to flourish

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            • #66
              Originally posted by corbray View Post
              no one is saying that luongo hasn't been good this season but even you can admit hes playing far far better than he did last season due to having scowen alongside him. no ones taking anything away from luongo as hes been brilliant but you have to give credit to scowen for filling that void and allowing luongo to flourish
              Scowen has been good, no one is doubting it but you're saying there was a void filled by scowen? That same role Scowen is taking this season was filled by Luongo himself for two years in a row now, only difference is that now that role has better support than when luongo had it... why? Because Luongo is the support.
              "What stats allow you to do is not take things at face value. The idea that I trust my eyes more than the stats, I just don't buy that because I've seen magicians pull rabbits out of hats and I know I just know that rabbit's not in there." - Billy Beane

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by nasser95 View Post
                Scowen has been good, no one is doubting it but you're saying there was a void filled by scowen? That same role Scowen is taking this season was filled by Luongo himself for two years in a row now, only difference is that now that role has better support than when luongo had it... why? Because Luongo is the support.
                exactly thats the point i'm making. we have pretty much the same squad as last season but really missed that scowen role, sure luongo filled it but he still wasn't as good as scowen in that role because its not a position that was best suited him, it limited what he could and couldn't do, he didn't look as comfortable on or off the ball as he does now. i was one of the few people who agreed with you last season that luongo was a really good player capable of playing in the prem one day who was just being played in a role that didn't suit him but bringing in scowen has really allowed luongo to shine to the point that even 77 is a fan now!
                we've got the triumvirate i midfield now and they all blend so well its unreal, scowen to defend, freeman to attack and luongo to do both.
                the main reason i consider scowen to be our key player is coz he allows the rest of the team to push forward, his reading of the game, vision and workrate is second to none in our team imo and losing hin to injury would be catastrophic as i don't feel anyone else in the team can bring those same abilities to the side whereas luongo could be replaced by the likes of manning if need be and freeman by bright or lualua etc.

                not taking anything away from luongo as i know hes a brilliant player when played right, the point is he is finally being played right

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                • #68
                  I love Mass and I always felt the stick he got was more than unjustified. But for me I think Freeman is our best midfielder and love watching him on the ball and is the player in our team that excites me the most.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by brightonr View Post
                    Surely it's time for a change of avatar Nasser?

                    I could suggest one if you're struggling.
                    Jesus. It's like dealing with a love struck teenager.......

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by corbray View Post
                      exactly thats the point i'm making. we have pretty much the same squad as last season but really missed that scowen role, sure luongo filled it but he still wasn't as good as scowen in that role because its not a position that was best suited him, it limited what he could and couldn't do, he didn't look as comfortable on or off the ball as he does now. i was one of the few people who agreed with you last season that luongo was a really good player capable of playing in the prem one day who was just being played in a role that didn't suit him but bringing in scowen has really allowed luongo to shine to the point that even 77 is a fan now!
                      we've got the triumvirate i midfield now and they all blend so well its unreal, scowen to defend, freeman to attack and luongo to do both.
                      the main reason i consider scowen to be our key player is coz he allows the rest of the team to push forward, his reading of the game, vision and workrate is second to none in our team imo and losing hin to injury would be catastrophic as i don't feel anyone else in the team can bring those same abilities to the side whereas luongo could be replaced by the likes of manning if need be and freeman by bright or lualua etc.

                      not taking anything away from luongo as i know hes a brilliant player when played right, the point is he is finally being played right
                      Sorry but I totally disagree with everything said here and so do the statistics. He's always been this comfortable on the ball, he's just done it in a deeper role. He's better than Scowen is at the role they took, he just also happens to be better at attacking than anyone else we've had in recent years.

                      Just for added proof, Scowen makes 1.6 tackles per game and 1.6 interceptions. Last season and the season before, taking up the same role as Scowen did, Luongo made 3.5 and 2.6 tackles per game while making 1.9 and 1.6 interceptions per game in both seasons prior to this one. Add on to that the fact that Scowen has given away more fouls and blocked fewer shots per game than Luongo did last season and the season before.

                      This isn't to say Scowen isn't good, on the contrary, I think he's fantastic and he's letting Freeman and Luongo be more attacking (Even though this season still, Luongo is making more tackles, more interceptions, fewer fouls and more blocks so he's in fact still our hardest working defensive player), it's just that Luongo was still fantastic and better than Scowen in that role last season. What I will say is I'd rather us using Scowen and Luongo this way than using Luongo and someone else in our squad in this role.

                      Scowen is fantastic and he's great at what he does. Luongo is better than him at what he does at it stands, while offering even more. To say that Scowen would be missed more than Luongo is imo very incorrect and will very likely be seen over the course of the season.
                      "What stats allow you to do is not take things at face value. The idea that I trust my eyes more than the stats, I just don't buy that because I've seen magicians pull rabbits out of hats and I know I just know that rabbit's not in there." - Billy Beane

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Rangers77 View Post
                        Jesus. It's like dealing with a love struck teenager.......
                        How's this for love struck
                        "What stats allow you to do is not take things at face value. The idea that I trust my eyes more than the stats, I just don't buy that because I've seen magicians pull rabbits out of hats and I know I just know that rabbit's not in there." - Billy Beane

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by nasser95 View Post
                          How's this for love struck
                          LOL. I have to take my proverbial hat off to you. I resile not an inch from my previous criticisms of the fella, but he's been excellent this season. No one's happier about that than me. Except you

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by nasser95 View Post
                            Last season, Luongo was 5th, Cairney 1st, Hoolahan 6th, Lansbury 17th, Hourihane 2nd

                            Season before, Luongo was 1st, Lansbury 2nd

                            I don't get where this idea was that he was inconsistent or not good, he's always been great and he's done a tonne more defensive work in the past. The thing is that we didn't have the creative spark who was being freed up by him because chery slowed everything down from open play. Now that Luongo is showing that he's a great offensive player, people are quick to lap praise onto Scowen who's just doing the job that Luongo did for two years already without any credit. I don't see anyone clamouring to complain about the fact that Scowen isn't scoring goals etc. His job in the side isn't to do that, same as how Luongo's wasn't to do that. Luongo's job was to win the ball and take it forward for the offensive players, which he did excellently, now his job is to win the ball, create, shoot, etc. Scowen's job now is to win the ball back and play it to the creative ones and he's lucky enough to have Freeman and Luongo to play to because it makes him look even better. If he had Chery or god knows who in front of him, fans would be quick to criticise his lack of attacking.
                            The idea that Luongo was inconsistent came from the fact that last season he was INCONSISTENT! And from memory only had a handful of good games, despite what your stats say, although fair enough he was quite clearly not being asked to play to his strengths. IMO Scowen has done a much better job defensively than Luongo ever did!

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                            • #74
                              Would it help if I added an 'IMO' to the thread title?

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                              • #75
                                But our midfield consists of one freebie, one lower league and one as cheap as chips.With an ex Irish league player as backup. Shows money doesn't always buy you happiness.

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