Centre back pairing - still a real problem

[West Acton]

It's a point I've made plenty of times (and been shot down for) West. Too many football fans these place all their faith in stats and reputations. Games aren't won by Opta stats or by how many international caps a player has, they are won and lost by what 11 men do over 90 minutes!

Can be statistically magnificent for 89mins and concede in the 90min and go home with SFA

I will take stats seriously when the leagues start giving you points at the end of each game for them.

[brightonr]

Wish Harry would look at the stats for our away performances.

[nasser95]

Can be statistically magnificent for 89mins and concede in the 90min and go home with SFA

I will take stats seriously when the leagues start giving you points at the end of each game for them.

I think you are all being a bit melodramatic. Stats are a huge part of the game, hence why every single team in the top four divisions has access to them. What makes everyone say they deserved something from the match? Stats do. If we have 10 shots on target and score no goals, we can say that we were excellent attacking but their goalkeeper made x amount of saves. Stats tell us that. Stats tell us how good someone has been at their job. If you work as a salesman, all they really care about are your stats, how much you sell etc. So yea, stats are important.
And Wests, on your point, they do offer points for stats, if you score more than the opposition, you win, that is a stat and a fact.

[nasser95]

Can make what ever arguement you want to from stats I prefer to trust what I see before my eyes

Would be interesting to see how many goals we conceded with Rio in the side for the games he played,that majority held him responsible for, in comparison to how many we have conceded since he has been out for same amount of games

Well, stats can show you that. I games with rio involved, we have conceded on average 2.143 goals per game (7 matches). Without Rio in the team, we have only conceded 1.88 (9 matches). SO there is a difference and it has been noticeable in our performances.

[Olly]

But what the stats don't tell you is that Rio was the new boy in a team trying to settle in, so no-one around him knew his game, and in another game, playing a system we'd never played before.

[West Acton]

Well, stats can show you that. I games with rio involved, we have conceded on average 2.143 goals per game (7 matches). Without Rio in the team, we have only conceded 1.88 (9 matches). SO there is a difference and it has been noticeable in our performances.

You have just made my point perfectly you have just compared 7 games to 9 which therefore skews the outcome

I get That stats are important Nassar especially in modern game but it's also important not to ignore what you see in front of your eyes ie sure Tom Carroll had outstanding stats on his pass completion rate for us but then it's very easy passing backwards and sideways and going no where would his stats be so impressive if he tried passing forwards and picking passes which opened up the defence???

[Martinmalta]

Our main problems are not in the defence. Green is playing very well; Dunne and Caulker are solid and the two fullbacks are doing their part as well. As already mentioned here and I said it several times before, its the midfield that are the cause of us conceding goals at such normal rate! Our mid fielders do not put much pressure on the opponents and when they win the ball, its always (or most of the time) a misplaced pass! Most goals that we conceded came from mistakes in the middle and this is where we must strengthen or at least expect more from what we have. Sandro will add steel to the midfield, however, most of the time here he is injured.

[nasser95]

You have just made my point perfectly you have just compared 7 games to 9 which therefore skews the outcome

I get That stats are important Nassar especially in modern game but it's also important not to ignore what you see in front of your eyes ie sure Tom Carroll had outstanding stats on his pass completion rate for us but then it's very easy passing backwards and sideways and going no where would his stats be so impressive if he tried passing forwards and picking passes which opened up the defence???

Which is why the general way player data is recorded by statisticians is generally to separate the forward passes from backwards passes. A player may have good pass accuracy overall but you can actually check out their forward pass attempts, from where they were on the pitch and how long the pass was etc. Also, even if we did the comparison 2 games ago it would have actually been beneficial to my point that Rio wasn't as solid in defence as our current pairing, seeing as we conceded 3 and 2 in those two games.

[maidstone_hoop]

I think Dunne has been class this year for us and rate the lad. Am lucky now living in Dubai can watch every game live out here even if most of them are in Arabic lol.

I just feel that we must look at the CB area due to his age and the fact he will more than likely be prone to injuries. On form at the moment he doesn't deserve to lose his place and as some have pointed out the likes of barton and fer lose possession of the ball far to often which puts us under pressure.

Fact is we have found a decent formula at home but if we are to progress as a club there are a few players of a certain age and status that will need to be replaced fairly soon ie Henry, Barton, Dunne and eventually Zamora.

[West Acton]

Which is why the general way player data is recorded by statisticians is generally to separate the forward passes from backwards passes. A player may have good pass accuracy overall but you can actually check out their forward pass attempts, from where they were on the pitch and how long the pass was etc. Also, even if we did the comparison 2 games ago it would have actually been beneficial to my point that Rio wasn't as solid in defence as our current pairing, seeing as we conceded 3 and 2 in those two games.

But I don't know that as you have not given a break down for a like for like comparison of 7 games v 7 games; I have no doubt the current paring would come out on top as it plain as day from watching it on the pitch but as few others have said that was in a new side learning about each other make of that what will you; Rio could be as dire as he was if selected or could turn out to be a revelation, we will prob find out at Arsenal

Its good your so passionate about stats as mathematics is a dying discipline. Out of interest where are your stats from and can you vouch for their accuracy as from any game you can look at any summary and get mixture of stats for same game which differ ie Sky say a team has X amount of shots, BBC another and then Newspapers different again.

What is your source of information??

[nasser95]

But I don't know that as you have not given a break down for a like for like comparison of 7 games v 7 games; I have no doubt the current paring would come out on top as it plain as day from watching it on the pitch but as few others have said that was in a new side learning about each other make of that what will you; Rio could be as dire as he was if selected or could turn out to be a revelation, we will prob find out at Arsenal

Its good your so passionate about stats as mathematics is a dying discipline. Out of interest where are your stats from and can you vouch for their accuracy as from any game you can look at any summary and get mixture of stats for same game which differ ie Sky say a team has X amount of shots, BBC another and then Newspapers different again.

What is your source of information??

I use whoscored.com and statszone as my main measures but I also have access to opta given that I work with EA Sports.
With regards to the 7 games vs 7, i did make that point in the post that we actually would have a better goals conceded per game if we did 7 vs 7 as you suggest. The data won't at all be skewed by only 2 games. If maybe Rio won't have played at all for the rest of the season, then using those statistics would skew the data because of the huge difference.
Also, just an added stat is that of any player in our squad, Rio has the best passing accuracy of just under 90 percent. Caulker has about 75 percent and dunne has 67 percent. This bear in mind, includes the fact that he played more passes per than any centre back and the fact that he is the only centre back who has played more successful long passes than unsuccessful. The one thing guaranteed from rio is a brilliant deep passer of the ball, perhaps trying him at some point in defensive midfield wouldn't be out of place..

[stainrodisalegend]

I use whoscored.com and statszone as my main measures but I also have access to opta given that I work with EA Sports.
With regards to the 7 games vs 7, i did make that point in the post that we actually would have a better goals conceded per game if we did 7 vs 7 as you suggest. The data won't at all be skewed by only 2 games. If maybe Rio won't have played at all for the rest of the season, then using those statistics would skew the data because of the huge difference.
Also, just an added stat is that of any player in our squad, Rio has the best passing accuracy of just under 90 percent. Caulker has about 75 percent and dunne has 67 percent. This bear in mind, includes the fact that he played more passes per than any centre back and the fact that he is the only centre back who has played more successful long passes than unsuccessful. The one thing guaranteed from rio is a brilliant deep passer of the ball, perhaps trying him at some point in defensive midfield wouldn't be out of place..

Think that is a good shout. A lot of posters make the point that the reason we have let in so many goals is that the centre of our defence is so exposed. The idea was to play Rio as sweeper - ie just behind the back two - but perhaps we should play him just in front, especially for away games.